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(idm) music criticism

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1998-08-01 13:58H. James Harkins (idm) music criticism
1998-08-03 16:56Erkki Rautio Re: (idm) Music criticism
└─ 1998-08-03 14:32Chaircrusher Re: (idm) Music criticism
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1998-08-01 13:58H. James HarkinsOne thing that really pisses me off is musical anti-intellectualism, or the idea that seri
From:
H. James Harkins
To:
Date:
Sat, 1 Aug 1998 09:58:39 -0400
Subject:
(idm) music criticism
permalink · <l03130300b1e8c96ea071@[152.3.249.180]>
One thing that really pisses me off is musical anti-intellectualism, or the idea that serious music can't be fun, and fun music can't be serious, and that one DARE not take fun music seriously. The result, as anyone can see from looking at the history of Western music since WWII, is that fun music becomes stupider, while music that seeks to raise questions and make you think becomes more and more impenetrable. Not a good situation, and it's a situation *we* as knowledgeable listeners can change by the ways *we* talk about music. This is in part what Alex was trying to do, and while I approach music very differently, I applaud the effort. Unfortunately, many on the list initially dismissed not just the result, but the effort as well. The first few responses here to Alex's post were not, "nice try, but too much jargon and speculation." They were more like, "shut up you stupid academic wanker." As if no one should even try. As if it's somehow an insult or misrepresentation of the music to look for cultural meaning below the surface. So much for *I*DM, then. Ae of all groups are occupying a real interesting space between noise-collage and conventional ambience, finding evocative rhythms and melodic contours in noise, or--here's my point--making SENSE out of NONSENSE. And we're *not* supposed to talk about this?! And before you say, "that's not what I meant--of course he should try, just in a different way," my question is, why didn't you say that in the first place? J ________ \ / | "I don't want more choices, H. James Harkins | I just want nicer things!" jharkins@acpub.duke.edu | \/ | -- Edina Monsoon "The sky is big enough to let all the clouds pass." -- Kobai Scott Whitney
1998-08-03 16:56Erkki Rautio> One thing that really pisses me off is musical anti-intellectualism, or > the idea that
From:
Erkki Rautio
To:
It Doesn't Matter
Date:
Mon, 3 Aug 1998 16:56:36 +0300 (EET DST)
Subject:
Re: (idm) Music criticism
permalink · <199808031356.QAA13355@kotilo.saunalahti.fi>
quoted 8 lines One thing that really pisses me off is musical anti-intellectualism, or> One thing that really pisses me off is musical anti-intellectualism, or > the idea that serious music can't be fun, and fun music can't be > serious, and that one DARE not take fun music seriously. The result, as > anyone can see from looking at the history of Western music since WWII, > is that fun music becomes stupider, while music that seeks to raise > questions and make you think becomes more and more impenetrable. Not a > good situation, and it's a situation *we* as knowledgeable listeners can > change by the ways *we* talk about music.
Have you read Kodwo Eshun's "More Brilliant Than The Sun - Adventures In Sonic Fiction" (Quartet Books, London, ISBN 0 7043 8025 0)? It's one attempt to have some serious criticism on electronic dance music, and also might shed some light on the problems you may get into when trying dissect it intellectually and using postmodern terminology (as in Eshun's case)... For me the problem is that Mr. Eshun seems to be so deep in his own complex narrative, but you can't decide if it's all just clever jargon (he likes to coin new words such as "futurhytmachine" and this goes on and on) -- all flash, but in fact full of hot air? Or is it that it's *the only possible way* to write about this music, the way musicians have with their samples and DJs in mixing two records together, to juxtapose unprobable elements and make something new out of it? So either Eshun might be a genius of techno music criticism or it's just a question of Emperor's new clothes... I'm yet to finish the book and I'm still pondering with these questions. Opinions? pHinn * the webmaster of pHinnWeb - the old skool, the nu skool * * and the pHuture skool of Finnish electronic music * * trerra@uta.fi | http://www.sci.fi/~phinnweb * electric pleasures 150898 -> http://come.to/electric_pleasures
1998-08-03 14:32ChaircrusherOn Mon, 3 Aug 1998, Erkki Rautio wrote: > > One thing that really pisses me off is musical
From:
Chaircrusher
To:
Erkki Rautio
Cc:
It Doesn't Matter
Date:
Mon, 3 Aug 1998 09:32:55 -0500 (CDT)
Subject:
Re: (idm) Music criticism
Reply to:
Re: (idm) Music criticism
permalink · <Pine.HPP.3.96.980803090800.24369B-100000@arthur.avalon.net>
On Mon, 3 Aug 1998, Erkki Rautio wrote:
quoted 10 lines One thing that really pisses me off is musical anti-intellectualism, or> > One thing that really pisses me off is musical anti-intellectualism, or > > the idea that serious music can't be fun, and fun music can't be > > serious, and that one DARE not take fun music seriously. > > Have you read Kodwo Eshun's "More Brilliant Than The Sun - Adventures > In Sonic Fiction" (Quartet Books, London, ISBN 0 7043 8025 0)? It's one > attempt to have some serious criticism on electronic dance music, and > also might shed some light on the problems you may get into when trying > dissect it intellectually and using postmodern terminology (as in > Eshun's case)...
Postmodern Criticism's BIG PROBLEM: It's often said that if the only tool you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail. Pomo Crit has as an axiom that it IS the hammer and dammit everything IS a nail. I'm a whole lot more interested in the criticism I see on IDM, because it's experiential rather than analytical -- you hear about what people consider 'chicken-skin music' rather than some sort of deconstructive analysis. This is not to say that there is no place for analytical thought in music criticism; just that I think that some criticism seeks to exhibit the cleverness of its author in ways that obscures the putative subject, the music. The technical term for this is 'wanking.' The whole dichotomy of dance music is fascinating though -- blokes employing maximal technology to try and invoke the ecstasy of dance that goes back to the most primitive origins of human culture. They were holding raves 50,000 years ago, with guys beating on logs instead of caning their 909s. The other difference, of course, was that they had flaming branches instead of glow sticks.