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Re: d'n'b beats? (was Re: (idm) 1991-92)

8 messages · 7 participants · spans 1 day · search this subject
◇ merged from 3 subjects: (idm) 1991-92 · (idm) how and how not to do breaks · d'n'b beats? (was re: (idm) 1991-92)
1998-06-25 22:34Re: (idm) 1991-92
1998-06-25 22:39john r. jacobus d'n'b beats? (was Re: (idm) 1991-92)
└─ 1998-06-26 01:03Mark Stevens Re: d'n'b beats? (was Re: (idm) 1991-92)
├─ 1998-06-26 02:57Michael Upton Re: d'n'b beats? (was Re: (idm) 1991-92)
├─ 1998-06-26 06:30siliconvortex Re: d'n'b beats? (was Re: (idm) 1991-92)
│ └─ 1998-06-26 11:23Irene McC Re: d'n'b beats? (was Re: (idm) 1991-92)
└─ 1998-06-26 14:09Chaircrusher (idm) how and how not to do breaks
1998-06-25 22:54Re: d'n'b beats? (was Re: (idm) 1991-92)
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1998-06-25 22:34PlantBoy1@aol.com> Over the past few days I've been listening to a lot of circa 1991-92 > electronica/IDM (
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Thu, 25 Jun 1998 18:34:44 EDT
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Re: (idm) 1991-92
permalink · <a1d7a4dd.3592d085@aol.com>
quoted 4 lines Over the past few days I've been listening to a lot of circa 1991-92> Over the past few days I've been listening to a lot of circa 1991-92 > electronica/IDM (Old Orb, Seefeel, Renegade Soundwave, SAW2, Artificial > Intelligence, old FSOL, etc) and I thought to myself that almost none of > this fantastic music used any drum-n-bass gestures at all, and none
involved
quoted 4 lines anything like *gag* big beat.> anything like *gag* big beat. > > I thought also that this stuff holds up *extremely* well over time, > whereas a lot of more recent stuff even by the same artists (i.e., RDJ)
gets
quoted 7 lines tired for me after one or two listens.> tired for me after one or two listens. > > I mean, how much drum and bass/breakbeat/big beat can you listen to > before it loses it's novelty? And who's doing music in the tradition the > aforementioned artists were practicing in 1992 (actually, I'd say BoC is to > a certain extent, and some of Squarepusher's less hectic stuff does too). > What happened to melodic, dancy, trippy dub? Beat-oriented ambient? It's
all
quoted 8 lines a wash of plinkityplinkitychikachikaboom 180+ bpm nowadays.> a wash of plinkityplinkitychikachikaboom 180+ bpm nowadays. > > Don't get me wrong, I love the speed and power of hard ass dnb, but > right now I'm listening to the Orb's Adventures beyond the Ultraworld and > I'm thinking damn this stuff is well-crafted and melodic and enveloping and > I don't hear that much anymore. > > -Cf
I totally agree with what you're saying. Sure, this d'n'b stuff is great, but I think once the whole fascination with these 32nd triplet flanged snare drum rolls at 250 BPM (okay, maybe that's an exageration) is over, only a few artists will be remembered. BTW, a lot of the stuff I do is geared more towards the spirit of '92. Programming d'n'b beats gives me a headache. :-) Geoff "It takes a life in stereo to really flow" "There is no great or small To the Soul that maketh all And where it cometh, all things are And it cometh everywhere"
1998-06-25 22:39john r. jacobushow _would_ one go about programming d'n'b beats? they always end up sounding horribly qua
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john r. jacobus
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Thu, 25 Jun 1998 18:39:29 -0400
Subject:
d'n'b beats? (was Re: (idm) 1991-92)
permalink · <19980625.183933.2718.2.haujohn@juno.com>
how _would_ one go about programming d'n'b beats? they always end up sounding horribly quantized. . .
quoted 11 lines I totally agree with what you're saying. Sure, this d'n'b stuff is>I totally agree with what you're saying. Sure, this d'n'b stuff is >great, but >I think once the whole fascination with these 32nd triplet flanged >snare drum >rolls at 250 BPM (okay, maybe that's an exageration) is over, only a >few >artists will be remembered. BTW, a lot of the stuff I do is geared >more >towards the spirit of '92. Programming d'n'b beats gives me a >headache. :-) >
1998-06-26 01:03Mark StevensOn Thu, 25 Jun 1998 18:39:29 -0400, you wrote: >how _would_ one go about programming d'n'b
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Mark Stevens
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Fri, 26 Jun 1998 01:03:27 GMT
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Re: d'n'b beats? (was Re: (idm) 1991-92)
Reply to:
d'n'b beats? (was Re: (idm) 1991-92)
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On Thu, 25 Jun 1998 18:39:29 -0400, you wrote:
quoted 2 lines how _would_ one go about programming d'n'b beats? they always end up>how _would_ one go about programming d'n'b beats? they always end up >sounding horribly quantized. . .
Here's my method: Sample a couple of bars of a drum loop. Chop it up it about four pieces. Give each sample a fast attack and a medium decay. Start recording a bar in your sequencer, using the samples, but have them triggered in random combinations -- some on the beat, some off-beat. Depending on the length of your decay, you'll get all manner of strange rhythms overlapping one another. Play around with the tempo of the track, trigger some samples faster than others. If it gets a bit incoherent, just lay some bog standard loops or programmed rhythms in the background. Try playing one sample at half-speed and trigger normal/faster-speed variations of the same sample over the top. Using this method you can put one single drum loop to no end of uses. /\/)ark http://www.sonance.demon.co.uk/
1998-06-26 02:57Michael UptonOn Thu, 25 Jun 1998 18:39:29 -0400, you wrote: | how _would_ one go about programming d'n'
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Michael Upton
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Fri, 26 Jun 1998 14:57:44 +1200 (NZST)
Subject:
Re: d'n'b beats? (was Re: (idm) 1991-92)
Reply to:
Re: d'n'b beats? (was Re: (idm) 1991-92)
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On Thu, 25 Jun 1998 18:39:29 -0400, you wrote: | how _would_ one go about programming d'n'b beats? they always end up | sounding horribly quantized. . . Normally I'm writing tracks around 100, but here's a trick I use which works at jungle speeds too. First of all, you need a sampler (or I guess a software version, if such things exist) where you can assign velocity to sample start point. That is, if the sequenced note has a velocity of 127 it will trigger the sample from the start, and if it's at 1 it will trigger the sample at its end point (or close to it). Having got a sampled break, I make sure it's in time when it's just looping as a bar. Then instead of triggering for a bar, I program out something like 6 16th notes, and then 10 16th notes. Make the first sequenced note play the beat from the start (ie. velocity 127) and then rejig the velocity of the second note until it sounds like it is just a sequenced bar. Basically, that's a complex way of saying that I try and find out which velocities I can trigger the break at which will keep it in time. Then, I rearrange the bits until they fit the kind of rhythm I'm after, and fool around for variation. I hope that makes _some_ sense. Michael "You know what? I'll call him Jet Jaguar..." http://www.vuw.ac.nz/~michael/jj.html Site last updated 15/4/98
1998-06-26 06:30siliconvortexOn Fri, 26 Jun 1998 01:03:27 GMT, you wrote: >>how _would_ one go about programming d'n'b
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siliconvortex
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Fri, 26 Jun 1998 06:30:55 GMT
Subject:
Re: d'n'b beats? (was Re: (idm) 1991-92)
Reply to:
Re: d'n'b beats? (was Re: (idm) 1991-92)
permalink · <35943f0b.1540068@post.demon.co.uk>
On Fri, 26 Jun 1998 01:03:27 GMT, you wrote:
quoted 2 lines how _would_ one go about programming d'n'b beats? they always end up>>how _would_ one go about programming d'n'b beats? they always end up >>sounding horribly quantized. . .
quoted 1 line Here's my method:>Here's my method:
quoted 2 lines Sample a couple of bars of a drum loop. Chop it up it about four>Sample a couple of bars of a drum loop. Chop it up it about four >pieces.
that's all a bit haphazard.. another way to do it is to duplicate information. have one sample of the whole loop, then two samples of the loop split into two, then eight, then sixteen, then 32 - all looped <waves> subconscious geography http://www.sub-con-geo.demon.co.uk
1998-06-26 11:23Irene McCOn 26 Jun 98, siliconvortex wrote > subconscious geography Best description I've read ...
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Irene McC
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Fri, 26 Jun 1998 13:23:29 +0200
Subject:
Re: d'n'b beats? (was Re: (idm) 1991-92)
Reply to:
Re: d'n'b beats? (was Re: (idm) 1991-92)
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On 26 Jun 98, siliconvortex wrote
quoted 1 line subconscious geography> subconscious geography
Best description I've read ... There *is* something immensely comforting about the 4 / 8 /16 bar repetitive loops - after all, 12-bar blues has been around for years. Everybody knows what's coming next, and although it might be predictable, especially on the dancefloor it has the effect of making things snap logically into place (the way they so seldome do in real life). I * I *
1998-06-26 14:09ChaircrusherMark has the method down. Not slagging him in particular, since I've not heard his tracks,
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Chaircrusher
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Mark Stevens
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Fri, 26 Jun 1998 09:09:31 -0500 (CDT)
Subject:
(idm) how and how not to do breaks
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Re: d'n'b beats? (was Re: (idm) 1991-92)
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Mark has the method down. Not slagging him in particular, since I've not heard his tracks, but the fact that there is a formula leads to all manner of boring formulaic tracks. In other words he left out the step where you throw away 95% of what you do because it sounds shit, and then listen to the other 5% and only keep the bits that have some soul to them. On Fri, 26 Jun 1998, Mark Stevens wrote:
quoted 21 lines Here's my method:> > Here's my method: > > Sample a couple of bars of a drum loop. Chop it up it about four > pieces. Give each sample a fast attack and a medium decay. Start > recording a bar in your sequencer, using the samples, but have them > triggered in random combinations -- some on the beat, some off-beat. > > Depending on the length of your decay, you'll get all manner of > strange rhythms overlapping one another. Play around with the tempo of > the track, trigger some samples faster than others. If it gets a bit > incoherent, just lay some bog standard loops or programmed rhythms in > the background. > > Try playing one sample at half-speed and trigger normal/faster-speed > variations of the same sample over the top. > > Using this method you can put one single drum loop to no end of uses. > > http://www.sonance.demon.co.uk/ >
1998-06-25 22:54PlantBoy1@aol.com> how _would_ one go about programming d'n'b beats? they always end up > sounding horribly
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Thu, 25 Jun 1998 18:54:31 EDT
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Re: d'n'b beats? (was Re: (idm) 1991-92)
permalink · <151e69b6.3592d528@aol.com>
quoted 2 lines how _would_ one go about programming d'n'b beats? they always end up> how _would_ one go about programming d'n'b beats? they always end up > sounding horribly quantized. . .
It's not that hard. When I've done d'n'b, usually it isn't like programming just the average breaks or something, it's a lot of mad-ass weird time sig. stuff. I've only done it a couple times, and it's mostly novelty. It doesn't sound quantized really. You can't really get that live drum warmth though, but that's the same with any programmed drums. Geoff "It takes a life in stereo to really flow" "There is no great or small To the Soul that maketh all And where it cometh, all things are And it cometh everywhere"