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Re: (idm) Haujobb & co.

15 messages · 12 participants · spans 1 day · search this subject
◇ merged from 4 subjects: (idm) "i can't get no": autechre copyright issue rant · (idm) autechre copyright issue rant · (idm) haujobb & co. · (idm) re: autechre / copyright infringement (fwd)
1998-05-19 18:08Blag Jesus Sex Machine (idm) Re: Autechre / Copyright infringement (fwd)
└─ 1998-05-19 21:26siliconvortex RE: (idm) Re: Autechre / Copyright infringement (fwd)
├─ 1998-05-19 16:04sfwd / RE: (idm) Re: Autechre / Copyright infringement (fwd)
└─ 1998-05-19 22:10Blag Jesus Sex Machine RE: (idm) Re: Autechre / Copyright infringement (fwd)
└─ 1998-05-20 01:02Chris.Hilker RE: (idm) Re: Autechre / Copyright infringement (fwd)
1998-05-20 04:44NoZe Brotherhood (idm) Autechre Copyright Issue RANT
1998-05-20 17:22thomas m weibrecht Re: (idm) "i can't get no": Autechre Copyright Issue RANT
└─ 1998-05-20 17:25laerm Re: (idm) "i can't get no": Autechre Copyright Issue RANT
1998-05-20 17:27Jon Drukman Re: (idm) "i can't get no": Autechre Copyright Issue RANT
└─ 1998-05-20 19:16Greg Clow (idm) Haujobb & co.
├─ 1998-05-20 21:35bleed Re: (idm) Haujobb & co.
└─ 1998-05-21 00:10laerm Re: (idm) Haujobb & co.
1998-05-20 19:39PUCKERED1 Re: (idm) Haujobb & co.
1998-05-20 22:32Re: (idm) Haujobb & co.
└─ 1998-05-21 00:12laerm Re: (idm) Haujobb & co.
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1998-05-19 18:08Blag Jesus Sex Machine---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 11:05:28 -0700 (PDT) From:
From:
Blag Jesus Sex Machine
To:
Date:
Tue, 19 May 1998 11:08:46 -0700 (PDT)
Subject:
(idm) Re: Autechre / Copyright infringement (fwd)
permalink · <Pine.LNX.3.96.980519110835.32296D-100000@blackbox>
---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 11:05:28 -0700 (PDT) From: Blag Jesus Sex Machine <blag@gawth.com> To: Greg Eden <greg@warp-net.com> Subject: Re: Autechre / Copyright infringement Mr. Eden: Well, I removed all of the files as soon as I got your message, so there will be no need to persue any any legal action regarding this matter.
quoted 2 lines We have discussed your actions with Sean Booth and Rob Brown and they> We have discussed your actions with Sean Booth and Rob Brown and they > are both personally extremely offended.
That really bothers me. Offended that people want to hear their music? *Nothing* on that page was (note the past tense) available for *purchase*, the intent behind it was to share the *music* with *fans* who would buy every single one of those records if given the opportunity. Given the choice between downloading an mp3 file and going to the record store and BUYING the real thing, I'm sure that all of the nearly 900 visitors to that page would gladly spend the money on the real thing... but as with most good electronic music, there's an serious scarcity issue, and for some people my site was the only way to hear some of the most outstanding tracks recorded by Mr. Brown and Mr. Booth. Had I posted Tri Repetae, or any of the other commercially available albums, then I think you'd have every right to pull the plug... but that, Mr. Eden, is not what I did. I went so far as to include a link to your site, and pointed out on the page that I would not post any material that was available for purchase. Had any of the files I had posted been rereleased, I would have taken the files down. This makes no difference, but I want to make it extremely clear that I had absolutely no intention of "offending" Mr. Brown and Mr. Booth, my actions were purely based on my admiriation of them and thier music. Hopefully something positive can come out of this, and perhaps Mr. Booth and Mr. Brown will see the demand for these particular tracks and perhaps make them available in the future. .Bil. for and on behalf of IAMaCOPIER ltd.
1998-05-19 21:26siliconvortex> choice between downloading an mp3 file and going to the record store and > BUYING the re
From:
siliconvortex
To:
i d m
Date:
Tue, 19 May 1998 22:26:52 +0100
Subject:
RE: (idm) Re: Autechre / Copyright infringement (fwd)
Reply to:
(idm) Re: Autechre / Copyright infringement (fwd)
permalink · <000201bd836c$d73c45c0$60f5989e@sub-con-geo.demon.co.uk>
quoted 3 lines choice between downloading an mp3 file and going to the record store and> choice between downloading an mp3 file and going to the record store and > BUYING the real thing, I'm sure that all of the nearly 900 visitors to > that page would gladly spend the money on the real thing...
pure nonsense! you're beginning to sound like a conscientious software pirate! not everyone, even in this secular little scene, is a rabid record collector, and i'm sure many of those 900 were glad to get hold of some music for free. place a bit of vinyl in front of them some time in the future and ask them to pay out money for something they already have a 95% accurate copy of, and i'd be surprised if more than a very small minority would do so without hesitation. i don't think anyone can deny that making freely available copies of music with the quality of mp3 (and please, no fucking boring arguments about how 'bad' mp3 sounds) will take away a certain amount of revenue from the record company that owns the recordings. though whether the increased exposure that freely available mp3 music can bring actually increases future record sales is another thing.... <waves>
1998-05-19 16:04sfwd /> > choice between downloading an mp3 file and going to the record store and > > BUYING th
From:
sfwd /
To:
siliconvortex ,
Date:
Tue, 19 May 1998 16:04:03 +0000
Subject:
RE: (idm) Re: Autechre / Copyright infringement (fwd)
Reply to:
RE: (idm) Re: Autechre / Copyright infringement (fwd)
permalink · <199805192303.QAA25645@sub.sonic.net>
quoted 11 lines choice between downloading an mp3 file and going to the record store and> > choice between downloading an mp3 file and going to the record store and > > BUYING the real thing, I'm sure that all of the nearly 900 visitors to > > that page would gladly spend the money on the real thing... > > pure nonsense! you're beginning to sound like a conscientious software > pirate! not everyone, even in this secular little scene, is a rabid record > collector, and i'm sure many of those 900 were glad to get hold of some > music for free. place a bit of vinyl in front of them some time in the > future and ask them to pay out money for something they already have a 95% > accurate copy of, and i'd be surprised if more than a very small minority > would do so without hesitation. i don't think anyone can deny that making
I hope you're right (sort of) because that might make so of the damn bids I've put in go down =) http://www.sonic.net/~brap/ sfwd.dyn.ml.org [on rare occasion* [V/VM][blackdog] ETC-+/////////// @ICq#12645306.......? .brap@sonic.net
1998-05-19 22:10Blag Jesus Sex MachineOn Tue, 19 May 1998, siliconvortex wrote: > > choice between downloading an mp3 file and g
From:
Blag Jesus Sex Machine
To:
siliconvortex
Cc:
i d m
Date:
Tue, 19 May 1998 15:10:13 -0700 (PDT)
Subject:
RE: (idm) Re: Autechre / Copyright infringement (fwd)
Reply to:
RE: (idm) Re: Autechre / Copyright infringement (fwd)
permalink · <Pine.LNX.3.96.980519144839.319A-100000@blackbox>
On Tue, 19 May 1998, siliconvortex wrote:
quoted 6 lines choice between downloading an mp3 file and going to the record store and> > choice between downloading an mp3 file and going to the record store and > > BUYING the real thing, I'm sure that all of the nearly 900 visitors to > > that page would gladly spend the money on the real thing... > > pure nonsense! you're beginning to sound like a conscientious software > pirate! not everyone, even in this secular little scene, is a rabid record
<blah blah blah>
quoted 3 lines freely available copies of music with the quality of mp3 (and please, no> freely available copies of music with the quality of mp3 (and please, no > fucking boring arguments about how 'bad' mp3 sounds) will take away a > certain amount of revenue from the record company that owns the recordings.
You seem to have overlooked the fact that NONE of the songs on the page are available for purchase. So what "revenue" are they being denied? THEY >ALREADY< MADE THEIR MONEY OFF OF THIS STUFF. Was I charging for access to the files? No. I didn't put up any of the commercially available material, I had a link to warp-net, I did it out of respect for autechre's music, which I felt should be heard. Apparently the Sean and Rob feel differently about it, and so does their label, so I deleted everything. I didn't deny anyone of any revenue, and I certainly wasn't profiting from it. I kept the site pretty low key, the only public announcement of the site was to this list, and I made efforts to keep it from appearing in search engines... the site was intended for the FAN, and only the FAN. If you want to talk about denying revenue, look at the prices some of these records go for after they've been out of print for a while. What's the lesser evil here, Mr. Vortex? Anyway, I'm not saying anything else about this, I don't want to piss off warp any more than I already have, I don't want to piss off autechre more than I already have, BUT I refuse to be crucified for doing what I thought was a cool thing for the fans of autechre who couldn't get thier own copies of these releases. This horse is dead. .Bil. IAMaCOPIER
1998-05-20 01:02Chris.Hilker>You seem to have overlooked the fact that NONE of the songs on the page >are available fo
From:
Chris.Hilker
To:
Ironic Dance Music
Date:
Tue, 19 May 1998 18:02:58 -0700
Subject:
RE: (idm) Re: Autechre / Copyright infringement (fwd)
Reply to:
RE: (idm) Re: Autechre / Copyright infringement (fwd)
permalink · <l03110700b187da681fd6@[4.4.58.244]>
quoted 2 lines You seem to have overlooked the fact that NONE of the songs on the page>You seem to have overlooked the fact that NONE of the songs on the page >are available for purchase. So what "revenue" are they being denied?
You're so full of shit your eyes are brown. If the lists you posted to IDM are any indication, half the tracks you put up are in print and easily available. I'm talking about stuff like the Ming remix, the Mike Ink remix, the Scorn remix, the St Etienne remix, the Space Time Continuum remix etc. C. -- Chris.Hilker (cspot@hyperreal.org) "Never really been too happy, never really been too sad And he doesn't know what he wanted, and he doesn't know what he had"
1998-05-20 04:44NoZe BrotherhoodI've been reading all this shit (and that's exactly what it is) that many of you have been
From:
NoZe Brotherhood
To:
Date:
Tue, 19 May 1998 23:44:11 CDT
Subject:
(idm) Autechre Copyright Issue RANT
permalink · <19980519.235952.7198.0.NoZe_Brotherhood@juno.com>
I've been reading all this shit (and that's exactly what it is) that many of you have been hurling at Bil and I just had to voice my support for his actions. Both his website and response letter to Warp should have been applauded instead of scrutinized. I live in Houston, which has an extreme shortage of warp/rephlex related material for a city of its size so a website like his is a godsend to me and my friends. I was just about to use my T1 line at work to grab some of the tracks from his page since it takes forever over a 28.8 connection. Unfortunately that's not happening anymore. I agree 100% with Bil that if I saw any of that material in a 200 mile radius of where I live, I would gladly put down the cash for it. I believe wholeheartedly in supporting the musicians which bring so much enjoyment to my life. So to the guy that chewed him out the most by saying he sounded like a real software "pirate," I say fuck that. You totally missed the boat with the point : "not everyone...is a rabid record collector, and i'm sure many of those 900 were glad to get hold of some music for free. place a bit of vinyl in front of them some time in the future and ask them to pay out money for something they already have a 95% accurate copy of." What you've failed to consider is that for many people there is no one to "place a bit of vinyl in front of them" period. If there were, then there would be no need for such an mp3 site. I know a handful of idm fans who live in Waco, Texas and they have it even worse off then I do. They're lucky to find a copy of "Come to Daddy" at their local Best Buy. Mp3 sites may be the only way they can obtain this kind of music. If what Greg from Warp said is true about Autechre truly being offended by Bil's actions then I'm sorry to say it, but I've lost some of the utmost respect I had for them. If they saw the tracks he had put online, then I can't imagine why they would have a problem with it. Even if they did have a problem, the way they handled it was bullshit. What if they would have said something more like : " Bil, Autechre was extremely flattered that you would go to the trouble of offering mp3's of their harder to find material, but since Warp is planning on releasing those tracks in wide distribution soon, we would like you to remove the files from your website." I think that would have been a cool way they could have gone about it. This will never happen of course because a cd like that is just wishful thinking (unless they take the Orb's lead) coupled with the point that Warp does not even own the majority of the tracks that were put up to make such a cd. here's another gem... " i don't think anyone can deny that making freely available copies of music with the quality of mp3 will take away a certain amount of revenue from the record company that owns the recordings." Ok, let's say I'm a cheap bastard and I want to go onto the Aphex MP3 archieve and download every single song onto my hard drive. What good does that do anyone for long-term enjoyment!? I don't know a single person who primarily listens to music off of their hard drive, number 1 because of space limitations, 2, sound quality degradation, 3, insane download times, 4, and most importantly, zero portability (even if you have a laptop, battery power only lasts for so long). So even if you have songs on your hard drive, I don't think that can come close to competeing with vinyl or a cd. The advantages of playing music in your car and on a home stereo system outweigh the allure of having the music for free. This brings me to the issue of burning Mp3's onto cd. I've only done this once using my school's equipment, and it's well worth the work for material which you know is extremely hard to find elsewhere. I made an Aphex Twin live cd consisting of 74 minutes of the best live tracks available on the grand Aphex MP3 archive. This project took close to 2 days worth of work to put together. First I had to download all the mp3s and then convert them to wav format (the easy part). It got harder when I began deleting the silence and excessive clapping before and after songs. Also, since I had taken tracks from 4 different concerts, I had to equalize each track's volume levels. Even on a Pentium 233 with 64 megs of RAM, this process is extremely painstaking. Finally after I got each track the way I wanted, I was able to burn the cd. The cd turned out terrific and to anyone who wants to put in the work to make such a cd, I say more power to you. The main thing many people forget is the reason we are all here on this list to begin with. It's not about money or who has the biggest collection or who was "down" from Artificial Intelligence 1 and so forth. It's the feeling you get after listening to Squarepusher's "Beep Street," that's why we are here. ( my personal example of course) Warp is taking the 1st step to settling this whole debate for future recordings by joining forces with Trent Reznor's Nothing Records which has great distribution. But even that may not be enough. Where are the U.S. Plaid, Autechre, and Squarepusher albums?? Why wait so long to put out records which are approaching the one year old mark? If the answer is money then I think these companies need to reevaluate their tactics and reasons for being in business. Bring the music to the masses I say. we are reasonable people (or so they claim) Ario. _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
1998-05-20 17:22thomas m weibrechtOn Tue, 19 May 1998 23:44:11 CDT noze_brotherhood@juno.com (NoZe Brotherhood) writes: > >W
From:
thomas m weibrecht
To:
Cc:
Date:
Wed, 20 May 1998 13:22:19 EDT
Subject:
Re: (idm) "i can't get no": Autechre Copyright Issue RANT
permalink · <19980520.132205.6647.0.tweibrecht@juno.com>
On Tue, 19 May 1998 23:44:11 CDT noze_brotherhood@juno.com (NoZe Brotherhood) writes:
quoted 8 lines What you've failed to consider is that for many people there is no one> >What you've failed to consider is that for many people there is no one >to "place a bit of vinyl in front of them" period. If there were, >then there would be no need for such an mp3 site. I know a handful >of idm fans who live in Waco, Texas and they have it even worse off >then I do. They're lucky to find a copy of "Come to Daddy" at their >local Best Buy. Mp3 sites may be the only way they can obtain this >kind of music.
if u have access to mp3 sites, you also have access to literally thousands of sites that sell music...the argument that "one cant get get it" is lame at best... tom w np: haujobb - matrix (once again: whoever recommended these artists deserves a standing ovation)
1998-05-20 17:25laermOn Wed, 20 May 1998, thomas m weibrecht wrote: > tom w > > np: haujobb - matrix (once agai
From:
laerm
To:
Date:
Wed, 20 May 1998 13:25:25 -0400 (EDT)
Subject:
Re: (idm) "i can't get no": Autechre Copyright Issue RANT
Reply to:
Re: (idm) "i can't get no": Autechre Copyright Issue RANT
permalink · <Pine.SUN.3.96.980520132401.11034C-100000@omni2>
On Wed, 20 May 1998, thomas m weibrecht wrote:
quoted 4 lines tom w> tom w > > np: haujobb - matrix (once again: whoever recommended these artists > deserves a standing ovation)
well, i'm not about to take credit for it... now would be a good time to mention this small plug of mine, though: i have created a haujobb mailing list. go to www.onelist.com and search for haujobb and you can subscribe then. it's quite low-traffic. * #### a disturbance in a system. #### laerm. @voicenet.com #### one time and you're a philosopher; two times and you're a pervert.
1998-05-20 17:27Jon Drukmanthomas m weibrecht wrote: > np: haujobb - matrix (once again: whoever recommended these ar
From:
Jon Drukman
To:
Date:
Wed, 20 May 1998 10:27:10 -0700
Subject:
Re: (idm) "i can't get no": Autechre Copyright Issue RANT
permalink · <3563126E.BDB16B39@gamespot.com>
thomas m weibrecht wrote:
quoted 2 lines np: haujobb - matrix (once again: whoever recommended these artists> np: haujobb - matrix (once again: whoever recommended these artists > deserves a standing ovation)
i plug them from time to time. now get NEWT "-273c"... if you like matrix you'll like newt. -- Jon Drukman jsd@gamespot.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Plan: Eat right, exercise regularly, die anyway.
1998-05-20 19:16Greg ClowOn Wed, 20 May 1998, Jon Drukman wrote: > > np: haujobb - matrix (once again: whoever reco
From:
Greg Clow
To:
Date:
Wed, 20 May 1998 15:16:09 -0400 (EDT)
Subject:
(idm) Haujobb & co.
Reply to:
Re: (idm) "i can't get no": Autechre Copyright Issue RANT
permalink · <Pine.BSI.3.96r.980520151458.9826C-100000@shell1.interlog.com>
On Wed, 20 May 1998, Jon Drukman wrote:
quoted 4 lines np: haujobb - matrix (once again: whoever recommended these artists> > np: haujobb - matrix (once again: whoever recommended these artists > > deserves a standing ovation) > > now get NEWT "-273c"... if you like matrix you'll like newt.
On the same tip - anyone heard the new disc by Cleen? Another Haujobb alias and/or side-project it seems. Any good? Greg
1998-05-20 21:35bleed>> now get NEWT "-273c"... if you like matrix you'll like newt. and by the same people und
From:
bleed
To:
Date:
Wed, 20 May 1998 21:35:13 +0200 (MET DST)
Subject:
Re: (idm) Haujobb & co.
Reply to:
(idm) Haujobb & co.
permalink · <v04003a01b188fce4734d@[195.21.17.66]>
quoted 1 line now get NEWT "-273c"... if you like matrix you'll like newt.>> now get NEWT "-273c"... if you like matrix you'll like newt.
and by the same people under their incredible drum and bass monikers: dots and dashes myer hexer s`apex you all should check their different 12"/cd`s on form & function, groove attack, poets club rec., shake up...... ---> see you sascha... <----------------194.21.17.66--------------->
1998-05-21 00:10laermOn Wed, 20 May 1998, Greg Clow wrote: > On the same tip - anyone heard the new disc by Cle
From:
laerm
To:
Date:
Wed, 20 May 1998 20:10:11 -0400 (EDT)
Subject:
Re: (idm) Haujobb & co.
Reply to:
(idm) Haujobb & co.
permalink · <Pine.SUN.3.96.980520200835.28099A-100000@omni2>
On Wed, 20 May 1998, Greg Clow wrote:
quoted 2 lines On the same tip - anyone heard the new disc by Cleen? Another Haujobb> On the same tip - anyone heard the new disc by Cleen? Another Haujobb > alias and/or side-project it seems. Any good?
yes, it is. and it's quite good. slightly more commercial then recent haujobb output, but certainly nothing to turn up your nose at. it's got some really interesting tracks (one utilises a lot of simpsons samples as the rhythm, and yet is not cheese). i'd recommend it. it's an ep. it's under $10. how can you lose? * #### a disturbance in a system. #### laerm. @voicenet.com #### one time and you're a philosopher; two times and you're a pervert.
1998-05-20 19:39PUCKERED1In a message dated 05/20/98 3:16:15 PM, stained@interlog.com wrote: >On the same tip - any
From:
PUCKERED1
To:
,
Date:
Wed, 20 May 1998 15:39:44 EDT
Subject:
Re: (idm) Haujobb & co.
permalink · <590a5c3f.35633181@aol.com>
In a message dated 05/20/98 3:16:15 PM, stained@interlog.com wrote:
quoted 2 lines On the same tip - anyone heard the new disc by Cleen? Another Haujobb>On the same tip - anyone heard the new disc by Cleen? Another Haujobb >alias and/or side-project it seems. Any good?
haven't heard that one, but I just got the new DOTS & DASHES CD (daniel myer & dejan samardzic) on Form & Function, and I must say I like it a lot. It's has that German drum-n-bass sound... but because I can't give a review too well, here's some of what the press sheet had to say: "...profound bass arrangements and polyrythmic drumcodes..." "...developing between abstract, jazzy and ambient characters this nine tracks open new musical dimensions that one considered more to be the space of acts like Photek and Source DIrect... D & D go some steps further in that drum & bass universe..." "... new german electric avantgarde forerunners? definitely" anyways, besides all that, I was surprised to like it as much as I do. great full spectrum sound (if you know Haujobb or Newt, then you know what I mean) I'd say, based on a quick listen, it's about 8/10 np: lowtec - maybe not from the sources -------------------------------------------------------------------- Karaoke Kalk visual discography http://members.aol.com/volumunits/karaoke_kalk.html --------------------------------------------------------------------
1998-05-20 22:32phlux@ix.netcom.comOn 05/20/98 15:39:44 you wrote: > > >In a message dated 05/20/98 3:16:15 PM, stained@inter
From:
To:
Date:
Wed, 20 May 1998 17:32:57 -0500 (CDT)
Subject:
Re: (idm) Haujobb & co.
permalink · <199852018282446334@ix.netcom.com>
On 05/20/98 15:39:44 you wrote:
quoted 11 lines In a message dated 05/20/98 3:16:15 PM, stained@interlog.com wrote:> > >In a message dated 05/20/98 3:16:15 PM, stained@interlog.com wrote: > >>On the same tip - anyone heard the new disc by Cleen? Another Haujobb >>alias and/or side-project it seems. Any good? > >haven't heard that one, but I just got the new DOTS & DASHES CD (daniel myer & >dejan samardzic) on Form & Function, and I must say I like it a lot. It's has >that German drum-n-bass sound... but because I can't give a review too well, >here's some of what the press sheet had to say:
The cleen disc is pretty much straight ahead circa '89 industrial dance, I was kinda dispointed given Haujjob's other output. I did get a chance to hear the Haujjob track on the upcoming Electropolis Comp on Metropolis. Absolutly amazing stuff.....its an instrumental and has an Autechre-eque vibe(although not a copy). ROB Codec! http://www.mindstorm.com/codec LogiQ http://www.sinless.com/logiq
1998-05-21 00:12laermOn Wed, 20 May 1998 phlux@ix.netcom.com wrote: > The cleen disc is pretty much straight ah
From:
laerm
To:
Date:
Wed, 20 May 1998 20:12:43 -0400 (EDT)
Subject:
Re: (idm) Haujobb & co.
Reply to:
Re: (idm) Haujobb & co.
permalink · <Pine.SUN.3.96.980520201147.28099D-100000@omni2>
On Wed, 20 May 1998 phlux@ix.netcom.com wrote:
quoted 5 lines The cleen disc is pretty much straight ahead circa '89 industrial dance, I was> The cleen disc is pretty much straight ahead circa '89 industrial dance, I was > kinda dispointed given Haujjob's other output. I did get a chance to hear the > Haujjob track on the upcoming Electropolis Comp on Metropolis. Absolutly > amazing stuff.....its an instrumental and has an Autechre-eque vibe(although > not a copy).
i wouldn't put it with that. sure, there was some good stuff going on in ebm in the late 80's, but nothing quite like this. yes, i've heard that track, too. yum. * #### a disturbance in a system. #### laerm. @voicenet.com #### one time and you're a philosopher; two times and you're a pervert.