IDM Mailing Archive

Well, I hope everyone got to hear at least a few of the tracks up on my page, because they're gone now. I didn't just remove the links, they've been nuked off the server, so don't waste your time trying to find them. I really don't want to get sued, and apparently I've "offended" Sean and Rob. Well, this is what you get. .Bil. ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 16:14:15 GMT From: Greg Eden <greg@warp-net.com> To: blag@gawth.com Subject: Autechre / Copyright infringement Dear Sir, We control the entire copyright vested in several master recordings (the "Recordings") by Sean Booth and Robert Brown (PKA Autechre). It has come to our attention that you are distributing some of these Recordings over the Internet and as such are in gross breach of our copyright in respect of which we reserve all our rights and the remedies available to us. Please remove these Recordings from your website (http://bigsun.wbs.net/homepages/i/d/m/idmmp3/) and cease the distribution or we will have no option but to consider legal action against you and/or your service provider. We have discussed your actions with Sean Booth and Rob Brown and they are both personally extremely offended. Please could you confirm by receipt that you have removed all the recordings and agree not to distribute any such recordings in the future. Greg Eden for and on behalf of Warp Records Limited

At 11:08 AM 5/19/98 -0700, Blag Jesus Sex Machine wrote:

quoted 11 lines Well, I hope everyone got to hear at least a few of the tracks up on my

>Well, I hope everyone got to hear at least a few of the tracks up on my >page, because they're gone now. > >I didn't just remove the links, they've been nuked off the server, so >don't waste your time trying to find them. I really don't want to get >sued, and apparently I've "offended" Sean and Rob. > >Well, this is what you get. > >.Bil. >

They want your money. - wells oliver / s0ewoliv@titan.vcu.edu

I know this is a dead horse, but just because they said they chatted with sean and rob doesn't mean they did. They probably just used it as a leverage point -- i'm sure they don't want to have to pursue legal action anymore than you do. On Wed, 20 May 1998, at 15:41:54, wells wrote:

quoted 10 lines I didn't just remove the links, they've been nuked off the server, so

> >I didn't just remove the links, they've been nuked off the server, so > >don't waste your time trying to find them. I really don't want to get > >sued, and apparently I've "offended" Sean and Rob. > > > >Well, this is what you get. > > > >.Bil. > > > > They want your money.

If they wanted our money, then they'd better give us the opportunity to give it to them, which isn't happening.

quoted 2 lines I know this is a dead horse, but just because they said they chatted

>I know this is a dead horse, but just because they said they chatted >with sean and rob doesn't mean they did.

Er, "they" is Greg Eden, a trustworthy former IDM list member. I don't doubt for a second that he really did talk with Autechre about it. C. -- Chris.Hilker (cspot@hyperreal.org) "Never really been too happy, never really been too sad And he doesn't know what he wanted, and he doesn't know what he had"

And also an employee of warp records, so in this situation that means little. He may just be doing what he's told. On Tue, 19 May 1998, at 18:04:34, Chris.Hilker wrote:

quoted 3 lines Er, "they" is Greg Eden, a trustworthy former IDM list member. I don't

> Er, "they" is Greg Eden, a trustworthy former IDM list member. I don't > doubt for a second that he really did talk with Autechre about it. >

Quoting Brett McCormick (brett@techno.chicken.org): | | And also an employee of warp records, so in this situation that means | little. He may just be doing what he's told. Uhm Greg Eden is the CEO or something AFAIK. Anyway, there was some dispute about exactly the same thing earlier, regarding some unofficial Autechre RealAudio fils that were made available to the public. As far as I can remember, the letter which Greg Eden sent was almost the same. For my own, I'm glad that I got the MP3s before the site went down, and I'm glad that someone made them available, but if I'd be running Warp I'd the the same thing as Greg Eden did. EOD -- Christian Stigen Larsen -- http://www.sublevel3.org chrisl@stud.ntnu.no http://www.stud.ntnu.no/~chrisl/

On Wed, 20 May 1998, Christian Stigen Larsen wrote:

quoted 7 lines Quoting Brett McCormick (brett@techno.chicken.org):

> Quoting Brett McCormick (brett@techno.chicken.org): > | > | And also an employee of warp records, so in this situation that means > | little. He may just be doing what he's told. > > Uhm Greg Eden is the CEO or something AFAIK. >

Rob Mitchell and Steve Beckett might have something to say about that. Warp is hardly big enough to have anything like a CEO anyway.

quoted 4 lines Anyway, there was some dispute about exactly the same thing earlier,

> Anyway, there was some dispute about exactly the same thing earlier, > regarding some unofficial Autechre RealAudio fils that were made > available to the public. >

I think this was the Radio mix controversy. If Sean/Rob objected to the tracks being on the site (not unreasonably) then I don't see what everyone's problem is. The relative availability of the tracks shouldn't come into it. In any case, as C.spot said they are actually rather more readily available than was indicated. Bah - this is rather tedious. Music: heard some of this new Schematic stuff last week and was rather underwhelmed. Not blown away but still standing (or probably seated). Is this deeply wrong of me viewers? Found that I had the Nurse with Wound/Stereolab thing on a radio tape the other day - hurrah. adam

Quoting Mark Kolmar (mkolmar@xnet.com): | | Are they embarassed by those tracks? They should be flattered that anyone | gives a goddamn, certainly not "offended" by not-for-profit, mid-fi | redistribution of unavailable material. On its face, this problem would | not appear to be about money, but rather CONTROL. I think we're blowing this up. IMHO I think Greg Eden added the line "Sean and Rob were offended by this.." just for effect/impact, and also in a *general* sense. What "Sean and Rob" (sorry don't know them :) *really* think about this specific case I think very few of us know. | All you composers out there should take this to heart. Being an unsigned composer myself I try to get my music "out there", and if I'd be signed I'd have no problem whatsoever with my music being made available for free to the public - BUT being _signed_ to a company means you agree on a set of points and so I would respect my record company stopping this kind of action. If for some reason I didn't like what my record company was doing, I'd leave them. -- Christian Stigen Larsen -- http://www.sublevel3.org chrisl@stud.ntnu.no http://www.stud.ntnu.no/~chrisl/

Wait a minute, this seems a bit messed up to me. Some people set up a wonderful web page of only really tricky or impossible to get Autechre MP3s & get scolded by Warp after less than a week but the Aphex Twin MP3 Archive has had stuff like "Come To Daddy," "....I Care Because You Do," "Selected Ambient Works II," "Richard D. James Album," & so forth MP3ed in their entireties, stuff that can actually hurt Warp's business, for months without getting hassled at all. That just seems strange to me. Well, I'm not saying that the Aphex page should go down now too (although I would like it better if they lost the in-print albums & EPs), I guess I'm just annoyed because I only got one Gescom song from the page. Marc Poirier

On 05/19/98 19:31:57 you wrote:

quoted 6 lines Please note that WARP claims to have CONTROL over the phonorecordings as

>Please note that WARP claims to have CONTROL over the phonorecordings as >well as the underlying compositions. If so, Sean Booth and Rob Brown have >little if any legal CONTROL over their creations, whether "offended" or >not. > >All you composers out there should take this to heart.

most large or medium-size labels own the copyright of the records they release. damn near any record contract you sign will give copyright to the label. warp is better than major labels in this respect, in that they do allow autechre a good deal of, if not total, artistic freedom as well as some control over their tracks. i don't think warp has the ability to sell an ae track to some corporation for a commercial without ae's consent. but they do have the right to sue someone who infringes on the copyright. as for the remixes, though, i would think the copyright would belong to the labels on which the remixes were released (since, as remixes, they generally are still credited as being written by whoever wrote the original track, no matter how little of it is left over). btw, how did the unreleased tracks get up there without autechre's consent? if they gave a tape to someone for them to listen to, and that person made the tracks available on the internet, i can see why they'd be offended. "a dream is worth a thousand pictures, the mouths of lampreys a thousand more..."

One little note about Warp controlling copyrights & lost revenues & so forth: I should share with all of you a bit of the business that goes behind remixes because that's a whole lot of what was on the page: remixes by Autechre of other musicians. When a musician hires you to remix a song, for the most part the general practise is that you get payed a flat fee for the job & the copyright for the song is retained by the original author(s) &/or the record label. After the flat fee that the remixers get, they get nothing else, no matter whether the record sells a trillion copies in Bombay or whether everyone gets it on MP3 & won't buy it. Even though a lot of remixes, especially Ae ones, can sound like totally new songs & probably would be more accurately described as "Autechre songs with samples from this other musician," that's how it usually goes. So not even Warp OR Autechre had the rights to many of those songs. Marc Poirier

For those of you who weren't on the list last May, here's the mail I got from Greg Eden regarding the Ae mp3s that I was hosting. It's important to note that the songs I had online were unavailable (to the best of my knowledge) and that some of them weren't even on warp (the bulk of the files were remixes) I did have a lot of stuff up (230MB worth) but you know, there are a lot of Ae releases, and a lot of those are limited to rediculously small pressings. Don't bother trying the url, they're not there now (I yanked everything down the second I got the email, I'm not going to get sued over something as stupid as a compressed audio file) but I believe they might be on bleepbloop (which I have absolutely nothing to do with, by the way) Note the jab "We have discussed your actions with Sean Booth and Robbed Brown and they are both personally extremely offended." Sure they are. I bet all of the graffiti they did was on Greg Eden's house. :) .Bil. ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 16:14:15 GMT From: Greg Eden <greg@warp-net.com> To: blag@gawth.com Subject: Autechre / Copyright infringement Dear Sir, We control the entire copyright vested in several master recordings (the "Recordings") by Sean Booth and Robert Brown (PKA Autechre). It has come to our attention that you are distributing some of these Recordings over the Internet and as such are in gross breach of our copyright in respect of which we reserve all our rights and the remedies available to us. Please remove these Recordings from your website (http://bigsun.wbs.net/homepages/i/d/m/idmmp3/) and cease the distribution or we will have no option but to consider legal action against you and/or your service provider. We have discussed your actions with Sean Booth and Rob Brown and they are both personally extremely offended. Please could you confirm by receipt that you have removed all the recordings and agree not to distribute any such recordings in the future. Greg Eden for and on behalf of Warp Records Limited