IDM Mailing Archive

quoted 1 line ===== Original Message From Sean Cooper =====

>===== Original Message From Sean Cooper =====

quoted 5 lines i'm all for calling a spade a spade, but the endless comparing of things to

>i'm all for calling a spade a spade, but the endless comparing of things to >autechre or aphex twin or whatever other first-wave idm artist has passed the >point of usefulness. these comments about while and arovane are a case in >point. neither can reasonably be compared to autechre beyond the blueprint >description provided above, yet these comparisons continue to be made. this

is >either ignorance or laziness. I thought you wrote the review on Urban Sounds of the first Arovane single on DIN? You know, the one that (unreasonably) said the 12" in question was picking up from where Autechre dropped the ball after 'Amber'? Perhaps I've got my pointless trivia mixed up. Still, "hear hear" to Sean's general point, and I'd also like to suggest a quick death to all the frankly incomprehensible "combination" comparisons too. You know, like "the While album sounding like a cross between Boogie Down Productions and Coil". I mean, what on earth is that supposed to sound like? What period of either act? What aspects of each act's sound are retained? Blurgo. Michael -+- Jet Jaguar MP3s http://mp3.com/jetjag/ -+- --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

at what point do we stop granting domain over an entire approach to electronic music to a single artist? at what point do we concede that the combination of interesting rhythms and interesting melodies has become the goal of a whole group of likeminded artists whose various slants on same can't be whittled down to a single influence? i'm all for calling a spade a spade, but the endless comparing of things to autechre or aphex twin or whatever other first-wave idm artist has passed the point of usefulness. these comments about while and arovane are a case in point. neither can reasonably be compared to autechre beyond the blueprint description provided above, yet these comparisons continue to be made. this is either ignorance or laziness. can we find a new crutch, please? sc

quoted 8 lines that's funny - your description of while is exactly how i was thinking i'd

>that's funny - your description of while is exactly how i was thinking i'd >describe the new arovane cd. :) this isn't a slight against it, i really >rather like everything i've heard by him... > >>>"BDP meets Coil", or so the ads say. True, or hype? Fact or Fiction? > >>I'd say it sounds more like _Amber_-era Autechre meets "Cichlisuite"-era >>Autechre. It's a very enjoyable slice of music, though.

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On Wed, 15 Mar 2000, Sean Cooper wrote:

quoted 11 lines at what point do we stop granting domain over an entire approach to

> at what point do we stop granting domain over an entire approach to > electronic music to a single artist? at what point do we concede that > the combination of interesting rhythms and interesting melodies has > become the goal of a whole group of likeminded artists whose various > slants on same can't be whittled down to a single influence? i'm all > for calling a spade a spade, but the endless comparing of things to > autechre or aphex twin or whatever other first-wave idm artist has > passed the point of usefulness. these comments about while and arovane > are a case in point. neither can reasonably be compared to autechre > beyond the blueprint description provided above, yet these comparisons > continue to be made. this is either ignorance or laziness.

for a quick description, one in which the main goal is to get across a general feel as opposed to a full-blown review, a comparison is far and away the only way to go. "sounds like a cross between _amber-era autechre and _cichlisuite_-era autechre" means far more to me than "it has some cool beats in the hip-hoppy/electro side of things, plus some good melodies and a bit of dsp tweakery". melodies aren't just melodies. autechre melodies don't sound like, say, senking melodies. same goes for beats, production, style, mood, etc. as for ignoramce or laziness...well, maybe ignorance. (i'm granting you the "maybe" because i can't see it how it applies.) laziness, not really. if anything, it's efficiency and borderline concision. a comparison is a pretty concrete description without actually using a single word to describe the music. it's easier to grasp a comparison, is what i'm trying to say, especially when what you're talking about is not easy to describe. * #### a disturbance in a system. #### laerm. @voicenet.com ##:# icq 5562209 hush - may i ask you all for silence? --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

I gotta agree, comparisons help me a lot to decide whether I will like something new. I can't stand reviews where you read about a page of text and at the end you still have no idea what the music is supposed to sound like. The worst ones are the ones which go on endlessly about the background of the artist or talk about the history of some "scene" or label or something but never get around to actually describing the music. A one-sentence comparison is worth ten reviews like that. OTOH, one thing that does annoy me is when an artist is compared with another one not because they sound alike but because it is cool to have your name appear next to the likes of Plaid or Boards of Canada. I have seen far too many things compared with BoC lately which to me sound nothing like them. Sometimes it's totally unnecessary too - Thug for instance is very good but sounds nothing like BoC to me, so why do I keep reading that he does? Ross. ----- Original Message ----- From: Chris Fahey <chrisf@raremedium.com> To: <idm@hyperreal.org> Sent: Thursday, March 16, 2000 12:27 AM Subject: RE: (idm) stop the lame comparisons, please

quoted 4 lines There's an entire school of thought about writing music reviews that

> There's an entire school of thought about writing music reviews that > religiously avoids comparing artists to other artists. Although this > methodology is admirably idealistic, and it probably encourages uncreative > writers to explore more interesting ways of describing the sound, I get

the

quoted 9 lines feeling that this "rule" has its origins in college writing classes, where

> feeling that this "rule" has its origins in college writing classes, where > young writers are discouraged from the use of simple comparisons. > > But as it happens, it's hands-down the best way to describe what music > sounds like. How else to describe sound than to compare it to another > familiar sound? (besides going into arcane music and acoustic theory and > besides describing hardware) > > The "If you like X you'll probably like Y" review technique has to be

about

quoted 5 lines the #1 way I've ever found out about new music I like without having

> the #1 way I've ever found out about new music I like without having > actually heard it first. Done correctly, it's far and away the only way to > accurately representing music with words. > > The problem, of course, is when the comparison is made without any detail

or

quoted 1 line qualification. It's one thing to say, for example, "Autechre meets

> qualification. It's one thing to say, for example, "Autechre meets

Maurizio"

quoted 5 lines and it's another thing entirely to say "Melodic Autechre-ish top with a

> and it's another thing entirely to say "Melodic Autechre-ish top with a > Maurizio bottom." (S&M double entendre intended) > > -cf >

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The only SONG which has that feel of BOC(and its just that little melody) is Track #3 I believe....and thats the only song which is similar.......... T hug is not a bad CD though! -----Original Message----- From: Ross Balmer [mailto:ross@tui.co.uk] Sent: Thursday, March 16, 2000 9:49 AM To: idm@hyperreal.org Subject: Re: (idm) stop the lame comparisons, please I gotta agree, comparisons help me a lot to decide whether I will like something new. I can't stand reviews where you read about a page of text and at the end you still have no idea what the music is supposed to sound like. The worst ones are the ones which go on endlessly about the background of the artist or talk about the history of some "scene" or label or something but never get around to actually describing the music. A one-sentence comparison is worth ten reviews like that. OTOH, one thing that does annoy me is when an artist is compared with another one not because they sound alike but because it is cool to have your name appear next to the likes of Plaid or Boards of Canada. I have seen far too many things compared with BoC lately which to me sound nothing like them. Sometimes it's totally unnecessary too - Thug for instance is very good but sounds nothing like BoC to me, so why do I keep reading that he does? Ross. ----- Original Message ----- From: Chris Fahey <chrisf@raremedium.com> To: <idm@hyperreal.org> Sent: Thursday, March 16, 2000 12:27 AM Subject: RE: (idm) stop the lame comparisons, please

quoted 4 lines There's an entire school of thought about writing music reviews that

> There's an entire school of thought about writing music reviews that > religiously avoids comparing artists to other artists. Although this > methodology is admirably idealistic, and it probably encourages uncreative > writers to explore more interesting ways of describing the sound, I get

the

quoted 9 lines feeling that this "rule" has its origins in college writing classes, where

> feeling that this "rule" has its origins in college writing classes, where > young writers are discouraged from the use of simple comparisons. > > But as it happens, it's hands-down the best way to describe what music > sounds like. How else to describe sound than to compare it to another > familiar sound? (besides going into arcane music and acoustic theory and > besides describing hardware) > > The "If you like X you'll probably like Y" review technique has to be

about

quoted 5 lines the #1 way I've ever found out about new music I like without having

> the #1 way I've ever found out about new music I like without having > actually heard it first. Done correctly, it's far and away the only way to > accurately representing music with words. > > The problem, of course, is when the comparison is made without any detail

or

quoted 1 line qualification. It's one thing to say, for example, "Autechre meets

> qualification. It's one thing to say, for example, "Autechre meets

Maurizio"

quoted 5 lines and it's another thing entirely to say "Melodic Autechre-ish top with a

> and it's another thing entirely to say "Melodic Autechre-ish top with a > Maurizio bottom." (S&M double entendre intended) > > -cf >

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