IDM Mailing Archive

quoted 3 lines what involvement did Cronenberg have with Come To Daddy? also, the film

>what involvement did Cronenberg have with Come To Daddy? also, the film >for Naked Lunch was an insult to Burrough's masterpiece and Crash was >just an abortion of a movie.

While I'll give you the Crash statement, Naked Lunch the film, as a self-contained film (ie removing all relation to Burroughs) was a damn fine flick. Totally off the deep end in a far more immediately aesthetically pleasing way than the novel (granted, this may be the basis for your statement, but you didn't articulate much). And for the record, much of the material came from Junkie, not Naked Lunch proper. BTW Wells, not to be insulting at all, but you bitch far too much. I agree with your bitchings 100% of the time so far, but I don't see much point to just shouting out how much Goldie sucks every time his name comes up (and Digital was surprisingly good; I would give it a listen. Totally different from the commercial diva pap that made him famous/"important" - basically really mechanical breaks (think maybe Photek's Third Sequence, but less blatantly scifi and more large-machines-in-a-small-room) and the No-U-Turn bass sound done in an actually bearable way. I won't go into how worthless and pretentious the entirety of the No-U-Turn roster is at the moment, but this is the way you'd think it sounds from some of the hype... Dark, but not murderously dark, more mechanically dark.) Parting shot: No-U-Turn is "dark" music for people who have no idea what "dark" music actually sounds like. --- the humble abbott arthur purvis set his hand hereto

Arthur B. Purvis wrote:

quoted 1 line BTW Wells, not to be insulting at all, but you bitch far too much.

> BTW Wells, not to be insulting at all, but you bitch far too much.

*nod*. Wells' posts are asymptotically approaching "content-free" IMHO.

quoted 3 lines Parting shot:

> Parting shot: > No-U-Turn is "dark" music for people who have no idea what "dark" music > actually sounds like.

Now them's fightin' words! (-: So you think "Freek Funk" is "shit" and now you're slagging No-U-Turn. Please enlighten me (past listener to Lustmord, oodles of In Slaughter Natives and other plenty-ass "dark" Industrial stuff) what "dark" music actually sounds like. And tell us what you *do* love so I can give it a good retaliatory slagging. Hehe (-: Merry what's-left-of-Christmas, - Greg

quoted 9 lines Parting shot:

> > Parting shot: > > No-U-Turn is "dark" music for people who have no idea what "dark" music > > actually sounds like. > > Now them's fightin' words! (-: So you think "Freek Funk" is "shit" and now > you're slagging No-U-Turn. Please enlighten me (past listener to Lustmord, > oodles of In Slaughter Natives and other plenty-ass "dark" Industrial stuff) > what "dark" music actually sounds like. And tell us what you *do* love so > I can give it a good retaliatory slagging. Hehe (-:

What I've heard of ISN has been kind of laughable, but I haven't heard much. Lustmord I'll give you - do you honestly think that No-U-Turn is as "dark" (for the record, I hate calling music "dark," but it seems to get the point across) as Heresy, however? What I do like that's IDM applicable (or not), in no real order: Autechre. 1/2 of Aphex (maybe less, but what I like, I like a lot). Godflesh/Techno Animal/Sidewinder/Solaris/Final. Mouse on Mars. Stravinsky. Scorn. Skinny Puppy - Last Rights only really, but it's a top 10 of all time. Sunny Day Real Estate. Nirvana. Pearl Jam. Coil. Current 93. Nurse with Wound. Einsturzende Neubauten (oodles). Aube. Can. The Hafler Trio. The Gate. John Fahey. Illusion of Safety. 0/Panasonic. Fushitsusha/Nijiumu. Many Siltbreeze records bands. Underworld. New Kingdom. Black Moon (oodles). Cypress Hill. DJ Krush. DJ Shadow. Slotek. Prince Charming. Dr. Israel. The rest of the Wordsound records, except Prince Paul's Psychoanalysis and the Laswell/Style Scott. Muslimgauze. My Bloody Valentine (oodles). Codeine. Photek. Beastie Boys. Rage Against the Machine. US Maple. Flying Luttenbachers. Zeni Geva. Ghost. Cosmic Invention. Third Eye Foundation. Hood. Flying Saucer Attack. John Coltrane. Cecil Taylor (only the crazy stuff though). Bartok. Barber. Smetena. Seefeel. etc. etc. etc. I keep a review archive at http://www.princeton.edu/~abpurvis/ if you're interested - I think about 50 long reviews up there now. Doesn't give much of an overview per se of what I like, however, but it'll give you something to rag on I'm sure (laugh). 24 minutes in Christmas left over here... --- the humble abbott arthur purvis set his hand hereto

Arthur B. Purvis wrote:

quoted 4 lines I won't go into

> I won't go into > how worthless and pretentious the entirety of the No-U-Turn roster is at > the moment, but this is the way you'd think it sounds from some of the > hype... Dark, but not murderously dark, more mechanically dark.

and

quoted 3 lines Parting shot:

> Parting shot: > No-U-Turn is "dark" music for people who have no idea what "dark" music > actually sounds like.

hahaha! As a member of the No-U-Turn crew, I WILL respond to this one. Unfortunately, it will have to wait until tomorrow as I'm on my way out the door to do the 'family' thing. :-( Plus, I've got tons of music to talk about, that I've been sitting on for the last few weeks, including the new Saigon LP, which is fucking amazing. peace, brock.

quoted 7 lines Parting shot:

> > Parting shot: > > No-U-Turn is "dark" music for people who have no idea what "dark" music > > actually sounds like. > > hahaha! > > As a member of the No-U-Turn crew, I WILL respond to this one.

Well, I haven't heard all of it, but I've heard quite a bit (Torque + some random 12"s) and all of it's been pretty terrible. The same style distorted, badly produced bass sound, the same 2step badly produced drums, and some lame atmospherics. And I wanted to like it so badly - I mean, dark drum and bass; this is an idea that inherently appeals to me (as I'm sure it does to many of you, I won't explain any further). Torque was easily the biggest letdown of the year. However, it probably wouldn't bug me half as much if No-U-Turn didn't get all the credit for "dark drum and bass" while numerous people are out there producing stuff 10x as good (Panacea, Godflesh, PCM, Downpour, to name some), 10x as original/interesting, and no one listens, because of the hype (For the record, I regard "hype" as just as much an evil as MTV. The only difference is the audience - MTV gets "the masses" (who only exist in the minds of the "hip") while hype (The Wire, the IDM list, the Voice, Simon Reynolds, DJs, art students, etc) gets "the hip." They're both right about 10% of the time. Maybe MTV is a little better. Both ignore anything that doesn't fit their image or their marketing agenda until 5 years later when it's been dumbed down or "artified," and both absolutely refuse to deal with each other in any rational way. Both also absolutely refuse to actively seek out anything new and/or interesting, instead repeating the same old crap ad infinitum.)

quoted 7 lines Parting shot:

>>> Parting shot: >>> No-U-Turn is "dark" music for people who have no idea what "dark" music >>> actually sounds like. > > Well, I haven't heard all of it, but I've heard quite a bit (Torque + some > random 12"s) and all of it's been pretty terrible. The same style > distorted, badly produced bass sound, the same 2-step badly produced

"Badly produced"! Spare me ... Compared to, say Download, most everything discussed on this list is "badly produced" ...

quoted 3 lines However, it probably wouldn't bug me half as much if No-U-Turn didn't get

> However, it probably wouldn't bug me half as much if No-U-Turn didn't get > all the credit for "dark drum and bass" while numerous people are out > there producing stuff 10x as good (Panacea, Godflesh, PCM, Downpour,

ROTFL!!! Panacea, the guy who FUCKING SAMPLES NO-U-TURN RECORDS SHAMELESSLY? Hey, I love his stuff too, but let's get real here! Go back a couple of days and read my review of the Position Chrome 19 CD please! Wherein a live jam between Panacea and a few others on Chrome leaves the No-U-Turn samples in intact! As for Downpour, well, I have the David Kristian/Downpour split CD on Dropbeat and I'd file Downpour under "Art Wank Drum N' Bass", sorry dude but I'd rather listen to "Torque" any day of the week. So I have a soft spot for "badly produced" Hoover bass. Bite me.

quoted 9 lines to name some), 10x as original/interesting, and no one listens, because of

> to name some), 10x as original/interesting, and no one listens, because of > the hype (For the record, I regard "hype" as just as much an evil as MTV. > The only difference is the audience - MTV gets "the masses" (who only > exist in the minds of the "hip") while hype (The Wire, the IDM list, the > Voice, Simon Reynolds, DJs, art students, etc) gets "the hip." They're > both right about 10% of the time. Maybe MTV is a little better. > Both ignore anything that doesn't fit their image or their > marketing agenda until 5 years later when it's been dumbed down or > "artified," [...]

Wait, you listed "The IDM list" in the hype/"the hip" list? So you're telling me that, as a member of the IDM list, I'm ignoring anything that doesn't fit my image or my marketing agenda? I OWN PANACEA, NO-U-TURN *AND* DOWNPOUR CD'S HELLLLLLO. (Disclaimer: I read "The Wire" and the IDM list. I could give two shits about Village Voice, Simon Reynolds, what DJs like or "art students".) Besides, someone from Princeton talking about pretentiousness? It is to laugh. np: Luke Slater "Freek Funk" Bah humbug, - Greg

quoted 6 lines Well, I haven't heard all of it, but I've heard quite a bit (Torque + some

> > Well, I haven't heard all of it, but I've heard quite a bit (Torque + some > > random 12"s) and all of it's been pretty terrible. The same style > > distorted, badly produced bass sound, the same 2-step badly produced > > "Badly produced"! Spare me ... Compared to, say Download, most everything > discussed on this list is "badly produced" ...

This is true. It's all straightforward plug in the synths to the tape etc. But then why does No-U-Turn sound so terrible? Autechre/Aphex don't sound terrible.

quoted 6 lines ROTFL!!!

> ROTFL!!! > > Panacea, the guy who FUCKING SAMPLES NO-U-TURN RECORDS SHAMELESSLY? Hey, I > love his stuff too, but let's get real here! Go back a couple of days and read > my review of the Position Chrome 19 CD please! Wherein a live jam between > Panacea and a few others on Chrome leaves the No-U-Turn samples in intact!

I have often wondered who samples whom here. I have noticed that the Nico/Fierce track "Input" is essentially the same track as Panacea's "Stormbringer." But to my (totally unbased) knowledge, Chrome01 came out long before No-U-Turn existed, given that the Techno Animal singles that came POST-Stormbringer have been out for a long ass time and are long out of print. It would seem to me then, that you've got it backwards, but I could have this totally wrong (and thus have never used this argument before now).

quoted 4 lines As for Downpour, well, I have the David Kristian/Downpour split CD on Dropbeat

> As for Downpour, well, I have the David Kristian/Downpour split CD on Dropbeat > and I'd file Downpour under "Art Wank Drum N' Bass", sorry dude but I'd rather > listen to "Torque" any day of the week. So I have a soft spot for "badly > produced" Hoover bass. Bite me.

I though you were perfectly civil in your first post, as was I in my reply. No need to get so testy. I'm curious what you think of Third Eye Foundation if Downpour is "art-wank dnb." (I also wonder what speed the CD is recorded at, because I enjoy my 12" at either, but it sounds a lot more fucked up at 45, speaking of recent threads...) Because TEF is significantly wankier in the sense that I think you're using it, ie pretension wank rather than Greatful Dead wank, than Downpour (and better, but that's besides the point).

quoted 12 lines exist in the minds of the "hip") while hype (The Wire, the IDM list, the

> > exist in the minds of the "hip") while hype (The Wire, the IDM list, the > > Voice, Simon Reynolds, DJs, art students, etc) gets "the hip." They're > > both right about 10% of the time. Maybe MTV is a little better. > > Both ignore anything that doesn't fit their image or their > > marketing agenda until 5 years later when it's been dumbed down or > > "artified," [...] > > Wait, you listed "The IDM list" in the hype/"the hip" list? So you're telling > me that, as a member of the IDM list, I'm ignoring anything that doesn't fit > my image or my marketing agenda? I OWN PANACEA, NO-U-TURN *AND* DOWNPOUR CD'S > HELLLLLLO. (Disclaimer: I read "The Wire" and the IDM list. I could give two > shits about Village Voice, Simon Reynolds, what DJs like or "art students".)

No, I never said that at all. I meant the IDM list metonymically speaking, as a whole - I'm sure you've noticed that certain trends/threads seem to sweep the IDM list (ever time an Aphex/Autechre/Mu-Ziq/etc record comes out, Luke Slater, Panasonic - even better, Musik Aus Strom). I further meant the IDM list as a part of the whole "hype" thing, because in and of itself the IDM list is pretty useful. Here's a good example of what I mean: indie rockers. Indie rockers will praise (the now terrible) June of 44 forever. They will never give two shits about Fushitsusha b/c they don't have the hype. They will never give two shits about Pearl Jam because they were on MTV. Your average Aphex/Autechre listener is the same way - no Chemical Brothers, Prodigy, or No-U-Turn. Maybe a Plug record, or Mu-Ziq, if he/she's feeling brave. Maybe. And certainly no rock or "art-wank." Your average Fushitsusha/Jim O'Rourke fan won't care about any of them, because they aren't "high art." And your average MTV watcher won't even know about any of the above. You are obviously not (and neither is most of the list; after all they took the time to find out and subscribe, right?) your average Aphex/Autechre listener. But I hope you see my point. Another good example: The Wire would never be caught dead writing an article on a band called "Skinny Puppy." Listen to the track Download on Last Rights - lots of CD Skipping, noise, etc. 4 years later or so - The Wire discovers Oval (after their hype at the hands of Tortoise, however) totally ignoring Skinny Puppy. They will always, because it isn't "arty" enough. And, as I think about it, your average IDM listener seems to be taken up with a need to look down on all things "rock" as boring. That's fucking retarded. Sure, 99% of rock is utter shite. So is 99% of techno. You just have to LOOK, and by failing to look

quoted 1 line Besides, someone from Princeton talking about pretentiousness? It is to laugh.

> Besides, someone from Princeton talking about pretentiousness? It is to laugh.

Umm, fuck you, asshole. You don't actually have to suffer through the bullshit; I deal with it on a daily basis, and you have no idea what you're talking about. I can't believe anyone would be so low as to criticize my fucking university. --- the humble abbott arthur purvis set his hand hereto

Arthur B. Purvis wrote:

quoted 6 lines Another good example: The Wire would never be caught dead writing an

> Another good example: The Wire would never be caught dead writing an > article on a band called "Skinny Puppy." Listen to the track Download on > Last Rights - lots of CD Skipping, noise, etc. 4 years later or so - The > Wire discovers Oval (after their hype at the hands of Tortoise, however) > totally ignoring Skinny Puppy. They will always, because it isn't "arty" > enough.

I have to 'defend' The Wire, as I think it's one of very few magazines who actually has something interesting to say about music (and I really couldn't care less if street-cred boys think it's "arty" or whatever else is the hip ugly word of the moment (see, I'm new on the list but already I got the hang of this nasty mix of sarcasm and bitter irony that so many of the young people seem to like these days)). First of all, I think you are putting too much of an emphasis on The Wire's conscious approach to picking out music you think is hype. A trivial fact: A magazine that has a certain amount of circulation (number of copies being printed) and a semi-large audience have to 'hype' something, in the sense that it's unavoidable that their (The Wire's) influence will rub off on their readers. The Wire puts Alec Empire on their cover, and of course some kind of attention will be paid to this guy (deservedly or undeservedly)...if not there wouldn't be any point in running a magazine, right? Enter discourse. So Arthur Purvis decides to start a magazine, and his first ambition is to "not print/review any of the artsy fartsy stuff featured in The Wire." Fine. Purvis decides to slag off all No U Turn releases in his first issue. Fine. But don't think you can avoid the hype, because you are yourself creating it ("I hate Purvis' magazine because he doesn't think No U Turn is 'arty' enough. And he thinks Panacea came before No U Turn, and doesn't pay enough respect to the real innovators."). The hype is the unavoidable consequence of the media world (and the fact that there aren't one paper for every individual on earth), and the only way you can counter it is to always keep your eyes and ears open to alternative sources, *and* make sure you tell The Wire about it if you think they suck in one way or the other. Sure, I *love* The Wire, but that doesn't mean I don't look around elsewhere (the net, friends, whatever). And it certainly doesn't mean I agree with everything they say. To the issue of The Wire being too arty: What the hell does word "arty" mean anyway? It's being dropped everywhere, but would you care to explain why *you* think The Wire chose Oval instead of Skinny Puppy to generate the CD-skipping hype (BTW, I like Oval quite a bit)? Your claim has a sort of semi-paranoid ring to it (although I'm sure you didn't mean for it to sound paranoid), and I'm curious as to what you might think the The Wire's motives are/were. Perhaps Skinny Puppys version of CD-skipping just wasn't to be liked (I haven't heard the track(s) you're refering to -- sorry), and Oval are simply doing it 'better' (whatever that means)? Second, what I really like (and hate when it's about something I like ;) about The Wire is that although they might put Artist X on the cover one month, or make a two-page feature on Artist Y the next, you can never rest assured that this artist might not be dogged in the next couple of issues. The reviewers/writers sometimes seem completely independent of the "overall feel" of the magazine (what the magazine feels like as a whole), which is a very rare, but attractive, phenomenon. Besides, your opinions on The Wire are just as stereotyped as the stereotypes you claim The Wire are presenting, if you know what I mean. Come on...Alec Empire "arty"? Plaid "arty"? Mouse On Mars "arty"? Patrick Pulsinger "arty"!?? No way. Art, perhaps, but not arty.

quoted 4 lines And, as I think about it, your average IDM listener seems to be taken up

> And, as I think about it, your average IDM listener seems to be taken up > with a need to look down on all things "rock" as boring. That's fucking > retarded. Sure, 99% of rock is utter shite. So is 99% of techno. You > just have to LOOK, and by failing to look

I whole-heartedly agree. Any kind of ignoration (is that a word?) based on something as totalitarian as a concept (Adorno (he-he)) is use- and worthless. Forget about "Techno" and "Rock". What does it sound like? Any good? Are they using guitars!? Oh my God...but...what the...it rules! (this could be the reaction of a person fixated on Techno upon hearing My Bloody Valentine for the first time). And I'll give you this: I really don't like The Wire's attitude towards what they call "academic electronic music". They could've had a lot more features and reviews and discussions instead of just name-dropping the genre (oops) with a patronizing remark here and there -- explaining instead of disdaining, please.

quoted 3 lines Besides, someone from Princeton talking about pretentiousness? It is to laugh.

> > Besides, someone from Princeton talking about pretentiousness? It is to laugh. > > Umm, fuck you, asshole. You don't actually have to suffer through the

Hmmm. Princeton? "fuck you asshole"? Cool.

quoted 1 line the humble abbott arthur purvis set his hand hereto

> the humble abbott arthur purvis set his hand hereto

/Oeivind/

Øivind Idsø wrote:

quoted 8 lines Arthur B. Purvis wrote:

> Arthur B. Purvis wrote: > >> Another good example: The Wire would never be caught dead writing an >> article on a band called "Skinny Puppy." Listen to the track Download on >> Last Rights - lots of CD skipping, noise, etc. 4 years later or so - The >> Wire discovers Oval (after their hype at the hands of Tortoise, however) >> totally ignoring Skinny Puppy. They will always, because it isn't "arty" >> enough.

Arthur, given that you've now shown that you're a former (if not present) Industrialist and your definition of "dark" music tends to coincide rather neatly with that style of music purveyed by certain brütish ambient Industrial artists ... have you ever stopped to consider the fact that maybe the reason that "The Wire" doesn't write about "Skinny Puppy" or the "Download" track in particular is because back when "Last Rights" was finished (at the beginning of November 1991) "The Wire" was covering shit like Pat Metheny? It's true - issue #102, August 1992 (by which time I know "Last Rights" was out) featured Trilok Girtu, Sons of Arqa, Joi, Pat Metheny, Steve Martland and Jimmy Witherspoon. The following month's issue #103 featured such Industrial artsy stalwarts as Mel Torme, Sinatra vs. Costello, Mike Westbrook, Schubert, Elvis Presley and Television. Need I say more? My point being that a magazine covers what it wants to cover at the time, based on the interests of the editorialship and the writers. At the time of Skinny Puppy's "Last Rights", "The Wire" was still run by people mostly interested in Jazz & Improv. By the time of Oval's "Diskont 94", there were people on board who were interested in modern Electronic music (there was a "Berlin Techno" feature in #124, June 1994, for example). You can hardly skewer "The Wire" for not covering Skinny Puppy 6 years after the fact!

quoted 2 lines I have to 'defend' The Wire, as I think it's one of very few magazines who

> I have to 'defend' The Wire, as I think it's one of very few magazines who > actually has something interesting to say about music [...]

I agree with Oeivind (even if he can't keep his posts within 80 columns (-: ). "The Wire" writes about music I'm interested in. It writes about music that I don't see written about in the other magazines I have access to. "The Wire" also covers music that I'm not interested in (the Free Jazz/Improv scene that is their historical/traditional oevre). I simply don't read those bits that I'm not interested in. Works for me.

quoted 8 lines First of all, I think you are putting too much of an emphasis on The Wire's

> First of all, I think you are putting too much of an emphasis on The Wire's > conscious approach to picking out music you think is hype. A trivial fact: A > magazine that has a certain amount of circulation (number of copies being > printed) and a semi-large audience have to 'hype' something, in the sense > that it's unavoidable that their (The Wire's) influence will rub off on their > readers. The Wire puts Alec Empire on their cover, and of course some kind of > attention will be paid to this guy (deservedly or undeservedly) ... if not > there wouldn't be any point in running a magazine, right? Enter discourse.

More to the point, who else puts Alec Empire on the cover? Or Autechre? Or Plaid? Or Juan Atkins? Or Rupert (Photek) Parkes? Or Patrick Pulsinger? Props to "The Wire" for having the guts to do this. And to keep going, even after years of pummelling in the letters section from the previous Free Jazz & Improv readership who continue to whinge at them for covering Techno and modern Electronic music to their dismay.

quoted 9 lines To the issue of The Wire being too arty: What the hell does word "arty" mean

> To the issue of The Wire being too arty: What the hell does word "arty" mean > anyway? It's being dropped everywhere; would you care to explain why *you* > think The Wire chose Oval instead of Skinny Puppy to generate the CD-skipping > hype (BTW, I like Oval quite a bit)? Your claim has a sort of semi-paranoid > ring to it (although I'm sure you didn't mean for it to sound paranoid), and > I'm curious as to what you might think the The Wire's motives are/were. > Perhaps Skinny Puppy's version of CD-skipping just wasn't to be liked (I > haven't heard the track(s) you're refering to - sorry), and Oval are simply > doing it 'better' (whatever that means)?

I'm not exactly sure what Arthur was referring to (CD-skipping hype?), but again I posit that it's simply the fact that their current staff is aware of Oval, who exist in the here & now, and Puppy is from the previous era and one shouldn't necessarily expect all the writers of "The Wire" to be aware of every track ever released that uses CD skipping, especially if it was released back in their Free Jazz era by an Industrial band! Conversely, given that the Immerse people sprung to some degree from the old Music From The Empty Quarter stable, I would be willing to bet that if *they* were to talk about Oval and CD skipping, the Pups might get a look-see. It's all in the background & interests of the writer(s).

quoted 4 lines Besides, your opinions on The Wire are just as stereotyped as the stereotypes

> Besides, your opinions on The Wire are just as stereotyped as the stereotypes > you claim The Wire are presenting, if you know what I mean. Come on ... Alec > Empire "arty"? Plaid "arty"? Mouse On Mars "arty"? Patrick Pulsinger > "arty"!?? No way. Art, perhaps, but not arty.

Exactly.

quoted 11 lines And, as I think about it, your average IDM listener seems to be taken up

>> And, as I think about it, your average IDM listener seems to be taken up >> with a need to look down on all things "Rock" as boring. That's fucking >> retarded. Sure, 99% of Rock is utter shite. So is 99% of Techno. You >> just have to LOOK, and by failing to look [...] > > I whole-heartedly agree. Any kind of ignoration (is that a word?) based on > something as totalitarian as a concept (Adorno (he-he)) is use- and worthless. > Forget about "Techno" and "Rock". What does it sound like? Any good? Are > they using guitars!? Oh my God ... but ... what the ... it rules! (This > could be the reaction of a person fixated on Techno upon hearing My Bloody > Valentine for the first time).

But here's where I'll disagree with both of you. Somebody that's as young as Arthur probably is ("young" in my almost-40 vernacular is "anyone under 30", for purposes of this discussion (-: ) can easily come upon all of today's musical genres in a veritable Demolition Derby of spacetime conflagration: translation, anything and everything can be "new" to some extent when you are relatively young. For me, however, my world lines are sufficiently long enough to have followed a certain path. I first heard My Bloody Valentine well before I heard Techno music. I've already been through my "99% is shit" phase. I like a *lot* more than 1% of the Techno and related music I hear these days. While I'll stop short of exclaiming "It's All Fuckin' Good!" I'm finding that my wider acceptance of music these days is inspiring. I used to be a young, bitter, cynical "There's my taste ... and bad taste" type, especially back in the Industrial days. I got over it. I feel better now (-: ('Course, maybe I'm just officially an Old Fart ... (-: ) But I've heard guitars/ bass/ drums style "Rock" music for over 30 years now. And it bores me shitless. And I feel this is a valid opinion to have, a valid framework to operate in, because it's filtered through my experiences. The person who's 19 now and listens to, say, Goth might find it new to them and exhilarating; the person who went through it first time 'round and was prancing around to Sisters of Mercy and Siouxsie in '82 would undoubtedly find the same exact music the 19 year old now likes to be hopelessly retro and outdated.

quoted 4 lines Besides, someone from Princeton talking about pretentiousness? It is to

>>> Besides, someone from Princeton talking about pretentiousness? It is to >>> laugh. >> >> Umm, fuck you, asshole.

Hahahaha ... hook, line and sinker. - Greg