IDM Mailing Archive

quoted 3 lines what involvement did Cronenberg have with Come To Daddy? also, the film

>what involvement did Cronenberg have with Come To Daddy? also, the film >for Naked Lunch was an insult to Burrough's masterpiece and Crash was >just an abortion of a movie.

While I'll give you the Crash statement, Naked Lunch the film, as a self-contained film (ie removing all relation to Burroughs) was a damn fine flick. Totally off the deep end in a far more immediately aesthetically pleasing way than the novel (granted, this may be the basis for your statement, but you didn't articulate much). And for the record, much of the material came from Junkie, not Naked Lunch proper. BTW Wells, not to be insulting at all, but you bitch far too much. I agree with your bitchings 100% of the time so far, but I don't see much point to just shouting out how much Goldie sucks every time his name comes up (and Digital was surprisingly good; I would give it a listen. Totally different from the commercial diva pap that made him famous/"important" - basically really mechanical breaks (think maybe Photek's Third Sequence, but less blatantly scifi and more large-machines-in-a-small-room) and the No-U-Turn bass sound done in an actually bearable way. I won't go into how worthless and pretentious the entirety of the No-U-Turn roster is at the moment, but this is the way you'd think it sounds from some of the hype... Dark, but not murderously dark, more mechanically dark.) Parting shot: No-U-Turn is "dark" music for people who have no idea what "dark" music actually sounds like. --- the humble abbott arthur purvis set his hand hereto

Arthur B. Purvis wrote:

quoted 1 line BTW Wells, not to be insulting at all, but you bitch far too much.

> BTW Wells, not to be insulting at all, but you bitch far too much.

*nod*. Wells' posts are asymptotically approaching "content-free" IMHO.

quoted 3 lines Parting shot:

> Parting shot: > No-U-Turn is "dark" music for people who have no idea what "dark" music > actually sounds like.

Now them's fightin' words! (-: So you think "Freek Funk" is "shit" and now you're slagging No-U-Turn. Please enlighten me (past listener to Lustmord, oodles of In Slaughter Natives and other plenty-ass "dark" Industrial stuff) what "dark" music actually sounds like. And tell us what you *do* love so I can give it a good retaliatory slagging. Hehe (-: Merry what's-left-of-Christmas, - Greg

quoted 9 lines Parting shot:

> > Parting shot: > > No-U-Turn is "dark" music for people who have no idea what "dark" music > > actually sounds like. > > Now them's fightin' words! (-: So you think "Freek Funk" is "shit" and now > you're slagging No-U-Turn. Please enlighten me (past listener to Lustmord, > oodles of In Slaughter Natives and other plenty-ass "dark" Industrial stuff) > what "dark" music actually sounds like. And tell us what you *do* love so > I can give it a good retaliatory slagging. Hehe (-:

What I've heard of ISN has been kind of laughable, but I haven't heard much. Lustmord I'll give you - do you honestly think that No-U-Turn is as "dark" (for the record, I hate calling music "dark," but it seems to get the point across) as Heresy, however? What I do like that's IDM applicable (or not), in no real order: Autechre. 1/2 of Aphex (maybe less, but what I like, I like a lot). Godflesh/Techno Animal/Sidewinder/Solaris/Final. Mouse on Mars. Stravinsky. Scorn. Skinny Puppy - Last Rights only really, but it's a top 10 of all time. Sunny Day Real Estate. Nirvana. Pearl Jam. Coil. Current 93. Nurse with Wound. Einsturzende Neubauten (oodles). Aube. Can. The Hafler Trio. The Gate. John Fahey. Illusion of Safety. 0/Panasonic. Fushitsusha/Nijiumu. Many Siltbreeze records bands. Underworld. New Kingdom. Black Moon (oodles). Cypress Hill. DJ Krush. DJ Shadow. Slotek. Prince Charming. Dr. Israel. The rest of the Wordsound records, except Prince Paul's Psychoanalysis and the Laswell/Style Scott. Muslimgauze. My Bloody Valentine (oodles). Codeine. Photek. Beastie Boys. Rage Against the Machine. US Maple. Flying Luttenbachers. Zeni Geva. Ghost. Cosmic Invention. Third Eye Foundation. Hood. Flying Saucer Attack. John Coltrane. Cecil Taylor (only the crazy stuff though). Bartok. Barber. Smetena. Seefeel. etc. etc. etc. I keep a review archive at http://www.princeton.edu/~abpurvis/ if you're interested - I think about 50 long reviews up there now. Doesn't give much of an overview per se of what I like, however, but it'll give you something to rag on I'm sure (laugh). 24 minutes in Christmas left over here... --- the humble abbott arthur purvis set his hand hereto

Arthur B. Purvis wrote:

quoted 4 lines I won't go into

> I won't go into > how worthless and pretentious the entirety of the No-U-Turn roster is at > the moment, but this is the way you'd think it sounds from some of the > hype... Dark, but not murderously dark, more mechanically dark.

and

quoted 3 lines Parting shot:

> Parting shot: > No-U-Turn is "dark" music for people who have no idea what "dark" music > actually sounds like.

hahaha! As a member of the No-U-Turn crew, I WILL respond to this one. Unfortunately, it will have to wait until tomorrow as I'm on my way out the door to do the 'family' thing. :-( Plus, I've got tons of music to talk about, that I've been sitting on for the last few weeks, including the new Saigon LP, which is fucking amazing. peace, brock.

quoted 7 lines Parting shot:

>>> Parting shot: >>> No-U-Turn is "dark" music for people who have no idea what "dark" music >>> actually sounds like. > > Well, I haven't heard all of it, but I've heard quite a bit (Torque + some > random 12"s) and all of it's been pretty terrible. The same style > distorted, badly produced bass sound, the same 2-step badly produced

"Badly produced"! Spare me ... Compared to, say Download, most everything discussed on this list is "badly produced" ...

quoted 3 lines However, it probably wouldn't bug me half as much if No-U-Turn didn't get

> However, it probably wouldn't bug me half as much if No-U-Turn didn't get > all the credit for "dark drum and bass" while numerous people are out > there producing stuff 10x as good (Panacea, Godflesh, PCM, Downpour,

ROTFL!!! Panacea, the guy who FUCKING SAMPLES NO-U-TURN RECORDS SHAMELESSLY? Hey, I love his stuff too, but let's get real here! Go back a couple of days and read my review of the Position Chrome 19 CD please! Wherein a live jam between Panacea and a few others on Chrome leaves the No-U-Turn samples in intact! As for Downpour, well, I have the David Kristian/Downpour split CD on Dropbeat and I'd file Downpour under "Art Wank Drum N' Bass", sorry dude but I'd rather listen to "Torque" any day of the week. So I have a soft spot for "badly produced" Hoover bass. Bite me.

quoted 9 lines to name some), 10x as original/interesting, and no one listens, because of

> to name some), 10x as original/interesting, and no one listens, because of > the hype (For the record, I regard "hype" as just as much an evil as MTV. > The only difference is the audience - MTV gets "the masses" (who only > exist in the minds of the "hip") while hype (The Wire, the IDM list, the > Voice, Simon Reynolds, DJs, art students, etc) gets "the hip." They're > both right about 10% of the time. Maybe MTV is a little better. > Both ignore anything that doesn't fit their image or their > marketing agenda until 5 years later when it's been dumbed down or > "artified," [...]

Wait, you listed "The IDM list" in the hype/"the hip" list? So you're telling me that, as a member of the IDM list, I'm ignoring anything that doesn't fit my image or my marketing agenda? I OWN PANACEA, NO-U-TURN *AND* DOWNPOUR CD'S HELLLLLLO. (Disclaimer: I read "The Wire" and the IDM list. I could give two shits about Village Voice, Simon Reynolds, what DJs like or "art students".) Besides, someone from Princeton talking about pretentiousness? It is to laugh. np: Luke Slater "Freek Funk" Bah humbug, - Greg

quoted 6 lines Well, I haven't heard all of it, but I've heard quite a bit (Torque + some

> > Well, I haven't heard all of it, but I've heard quite a bit (Torque + some > > random 12"s) and all of it's been pretty terrible. The same style > > distorted, badly produced bass sound, the same 2-step badly produced > > "Badly produced"! Spare me ... Compared to, say Download, most everything > discussed on this list is "badly produced" ...

This is true. It's all straightforward plug in the synths to the tape etc. But then why does No-U-Turn sound so terrible? Autechre/Aphex don't sound terrible.

quoted 6 lines ROTFL!!!

> ROTFL!!! > > Panacea, the guy who FUCKING SAMPLES NO-U-TURN RECORDS SHAMELESSLY? Hey, I > love his stuff too, but let's get real here! Go back a couple of days and read > my review of the Position Chrome 19 CD please! Wherein a live jam between > Panacea and a few others on Chrome leaves the No-U-Turn samples in intact!

I have often wondered who samples whom here. I have noticed that the Nico/Fierce track "Input" is essentially the same track as Panacea's "Stormbringer." But to my (totally unbased) knowledge, Chrome01 came out long before No-U-Turn existed, given that the Techno Animal singles that came POST-Stormbringer have been out for a long ass time and are long out of print. It would seem to me then, that you've got it backwards, but I could have this totally wrong (and thus have never used this argument before now).

quoted 4 lines As for Downpour, well, I have the David Kristian/Downpour split CD on Dropbeat

> As for Downpour, well, I have the David Kristian/Downpour split CD on Dropbeat > and I'd file Downpour under "Art Wank Drum N' Bass", sorry dude but I'd rather > listen to "Torque" any day of the week. So I have a soft spot for "badly > produced" Hoover bass. Bite me.

I though you were perfectly civil in your first post, as was I in my reply. No need to get so testy. I'm curious what you think of Third Eye Foundation if Downpour is "art-wank dnb." (I also wonder what speed the CD is recorded at, because I enjoy my 12" at either, but it sounds a lot more fucked up at 45, speaking of recent threads...) Because TEF is significantly wankier in the sense that I think you're using it, ie pretension wank rather than Greatful Dead wank, than Downpour (and better, but that's besides the point).

quoted 12 lines exist in the minds of the "hip") while hype (The Wire, the IDM list, the

> > exist in the minds of the "hip") while hype (The Wire, the IDM list, the > > Voice, Simon Reynolds, DJs, art students, etc) gets "the hip." They're > > both right about 10% of the time. Maybe MTV is a little better. > > Both ignore anything that doesn't fit their image or their > > marketing agenda until 5 years later when it's been dumbed down or > > "artified," [...] > > Wait, you listed "The IDM list" in the hype/"the hip" list? So you're telling > me that, as a member of the IDM list, I'm ignoring anything that doesn't fit > my image or my marketing agenda? I OWN PANACEA, NO-U-TURN *AND* DOWNPOUR CD'S > HELLLLLLO. (Disclaimer: I read "The Wire" and the IDM list. I could give two > shits about Village Voice, Simon Reynolds, what DJs like or "art students".)

No, I never said that at all. I meant the IDM list metonymically speaking, as a whole - I'm sure you've noticed that certain trends/threads seem to sweep the IDM list (ever time an Aphex/Autechre/Mu-Ziq/etc record comes out, Luke Slater, Panasonic - even better, Musik Aus Strom). I further meant the IDM list as a part of the whole "hype" thing, because in and of itself the IDM list is pretty useful. Here's a good example of what I mean: indie rockers. Indie rockers will praise (the now terrible) June of 44 forever. They will never give two shits about Fushitsusha b/c they don't have the hype. They will never give two shits about Pearl Jam because they were on MTV. Your average Aphex/Autechre listener is the same way - no Chemical Brothers, Prodigy, or No-U-Turn. Maybe a Plug record, or Mu-Ziq, if he/she's feeling brave. Maybe. And certainly no rock or "art-wank." Your average Fushitsusha/Jim O'Rourke fan won't care about any of them, because they aren't "high art." And your average MTV watcher won't even know about any of the above. You are obviously not (and neither is most of the list; after all they took the time to find out and subscribe, right?) your average Aphex/Autechre listener. But I hope you see my point. Another good example: The Wire would never be caught dead writing an article on a band called "Skinny Puppy." Listen to the track Download on Last Rights - lots of CD Skipping, noise, etc. 4 years later or so - The Wire discovers Oval (after their hype at the hands of Tortoise, however) totally ignoring Skinny Puppy. They will always, because it isn't "arty" enough. And, as I think about it, your average IDM listener seems to be taken up with a need to look down on all things "rock" as boring. That's fucking retarded. Sure, 99% of rock is utter shite. So is 99% of techno. You just have to LOOK, and by failing to look

quoted 1 line Besides, someone from Princeton talking about pretentiousness? It is to laugh.

> Besides, someone from Princeton talking about pretentiousness? It is to laugh.

Umm, fuck you, asshole. You don't actually have to suffer through the bullshit; I deal with it on a daily basis, and you have no idea what you're talking about. I can't believe anyone would be so low as to criticize my fucking university. --- the humble abbott arthur purvis set his hand hereto