IDM Mailing Archive

quoted 5 lines Che said:

> Che said: > heard of something called 'commercial sellout'? Bjork's appearance > should be good for moving a few more thousand units to Bjork > trainspotters. Plus, music with vocals usually sells better, at least, > that's all my wife or virtually any female I know will listen to.

Heard of something called "misogyny"? Lots of people like vocal music for reasons other that "it sells better". Let's forget for a moment the fact that it's possible for a man to be a vocalist (global goon and RDJ come to mind in this genre) and let's just cut to the chase and bust open the old "Women in IDM" topic again for old times sake. I think many IDM instrumental acts are without vocals because the musicians, like you, probably are such tight ass wonks that they can't stand being around any women interesting enough to want to be in a band with. Let me ask you something... If you think your wife is such a loser why thehell did you marry her? You clearly look down on "females" and you made a point of including your wife in your derision. People like you really bug me out. -CF

On Sat, 1 Nov 1997, Christopher Fahey wrote:

quoted 12 lines Heard of something called "misogyny"?

> Heard of something called "misogyny"? > > Lots of people like vocal music for reasons other that "it sells better". > Let's forget for a moment the fact that it's possible for a man to be a > vocalist (global goon and RDJ come to mind in this genre) and let's just > cut to the chase and bust open the old "Women in IDM" topic again for old > times sake. I think many IDM instrumental acts are without vocals > because the musicians, like you, probably are such tight ass wonks that > they > can't stand being around any women interesting enough to want to be in a > band > with.

I know a lot of men who prefer music with vocals. God, what a FUCKING MISANTHROPE I AM for daring to write that!

quoted 5 lines Let me ask you something... If you think your wife is such a loser why

> Let me ask you something... If you think your wife is such a loser why > thehell did you marry her? You clearly look down on "females" and you made > a > point of including your wife in your derision. People like you really bug > me out.

Unlike you, I don't believe that someone who has different tastes from me is a loser. My wife prefers non-instrumental music; I prefer instrumental music. This is great - there is room for both, and there is music we both enjoy. The key here is that there was nothing derisive towards women in what I wrote, but you, in your rush to judge everyone who doesn't fit your idea of political correctness, interpreted it as such. Sorry you can't handle a true statement and have to read your own hatred of others into it. If I had written "virtually all the women I know have two arms, two legs, and two eyes", would you say that I "clearly look down on 'females'? Why is one observation more derogatory than the other? I made NO value judgement - you did. Che

quoted 4 lines Che wrote:

> Che wrote: > > Unlike you, I don't believe that someone who has different tastes > from me is a loser.

First, I don't (usually!) believe that differences in musical tastes have any correlation at all to differences in the *value* of one's tastes. And I *certainly* wouldn't base any value judgement of music on some shallow, superficial distinction like whether or not it has vocals. It's pretty closed-minded to base a musical value judgement on something so superficial as the presence of vocals.

quoted 3 lines The key here is that there was nothing derisive towards women in what I

> The key here is that there was nothing derisive towards women in what I > wrote, but you, in your rush to judge everyone who doesn't fit your idea > of political correctness, interpreted it as such.

Um, what you said was: "Plus, music with vocals usually sells better, at least, that's all my wife or virtually any female I know will listen to." You were trying to imply that people who buy this record buy it out of some narrow-minded need to listen to only vocal music, that they aren't sophisticated enough to appreciate non-vocal music. Then you go on to use every female you know as an example of this kind of narrow-minded person. (Crying "political correctness" is a pretty simplistic accusation, and it's pretty pass? these days. Is it politically correct of me to ask you to respect women, or could it be just plain old common decency?)

quoted 3 lines If I had written "virtually all the women I know have two arms,

> If I had written "virtually all the women I know have two arms, > two legs, and two eyes", would you say that I "clearly look > down on 'females'?

I would certainly question why you felt the need to point that out at all. Are you now trying to say that you just coincidentally mentioned this "fact" about women out of thin air, with no correlation whatsoever between that sentence and the one before it in which you slag off the idea of liking vocals in IDM music? Your whole original post breaks down thusly: 1) Album X is not good - it's just a marketing ploy. 2) Women will buy it, though. Neither sentence says "women are fools" but together they clearly point in that direction. Face it, you've got a problem dealing with women. I would venture so far as to say that that's probably why you don't dig bjork or vocals in general. Here's a test : Try showing your original post to your wife and ask her what *she* thinks about being lumped together with all the other "females" you know as someone with closed-minded musical tastes. If she's angry about it, good for her, I hope she slaps you but good. If she's not offended and she agrees that she is closed-minded, then I guess you two have something in common. - Chris Fahey