IDM Mailing Archive

On Fri, 31 Oct 1997, Philip Hugh Sherburne wrote:

quoted 4 lines unfortunately, i think my post is at cross-purposes to itself, because

> unfortunately, i think my post is at cross-purposes to itself, because > while i really want to pre-empt a long, drawn out, go-nowhere quasidebate > about gender roles & IDM... i also am having a really, really, really hard > time resisting slagging the utter fucking inanity of the above statement.

What was inane about it? It's a true statement, based on questions to & observations of women I know. Poll women you know, and see if you don't get similar results.

quoted 5 lines i'm not denying that there are, sociologically speaking, gender differences

> i'm not denying that there are, sociologically speaking, gender differences > at issue in music habits. i work at a record store, and so i see first > hand that men are a vast majority of music-buyers in general (simon > reynolds chalks it up to anal-retentiveness, which is somehow supposed to > be a male tendency, at least in a patriarchal society).

I for one am glad there are diffences between the male & female of the species.

quoted 6 lines HOWEVER, the way

> HOWEVER, the way > you frame your statement does *not* sound like an objective sociological > observation--it comes across much more like an utterly derisive > condemnation. and it's really not too cool. (by the way, interesting how > "commercial sellout" becomes a gendered term, by its association to the > "feminine" nature of music with vocals.)

I'm not dissing women, I'm dissing Plaid. Of course it was framed in such a way to piss people off. I like seeing who can argue with passion, and who degenerates into unfocused vitriol. You've done a good job of fusing logic with emotion, BTW. Who knows why Plaid chose to incorporate vocals? Maybe it's pure artistry, maybe it's pure calculated commercialism. The guy I responded to threw out one extreme, I threw out the other. The truth probably lies somewhere in the middle. I prefer IDM without vocals because vocals tend to either force a certain emotional state and level of attention (if there are lyrics), or just come across as inane (if they're the "oooh, yeah, baby" sort that plague house & drum&bass). For whatever reason, I can actually enjoy Bjork's voice if the music's good, but, I have to be in a certain mood to listen. Instrumental IDM is much more open-ended emotionally. Of course, there are weird exceptions (contradiction is my middle name). Take "Long Road" by Funki Porcini. In the middle of this moody piece he throws in this utterly cliched "I'll take you higher" sample, several times & out of rhythm. It has a really bizarre effect on me and for some reason I find it fucking brilliant. When Omni Trio uses similar diva samples, I'm just pissed off. Go figure. Che PS Philip Hugh: Why so fucking lazy about typing a meaningful Subject: line?

At 05:01 PM 10/31/97 -0500, Philip Hugh Sherburne wrote:

quoted 15 lines heard of something called 'commercial sellout'? Bjork's appearance

>>heard of something called 'commercial sellout'? Bjork's appearance >>should be good for moving a few more thousand units to Bjork >>trainspotters. Plus, music with vocals usually sells better, at least, >>that's all my wife or virtually any female I know will listen to. >> >>Che > >as though there weren't enough utter shit on this list... fer cryin' out >loud! haven't we been through the fucking gender issue a bazillion times >already? > >unfortunately, i think my post is at cross-purposes to itself, because >while i really want to pre-empt a long, drawn out, go-nowhere quasidebate >about gender roles & IDM... i also am having a really, really, really hard >time resisting slagging the utter fucking inanity of the above statement.

Jesus Christ, re-read what he said: "at least, that's all MY WIFE or virtually any FEMALE I KNOW will listen to". Notice the "MY WIFE" and "FEMALE I KNOW" parts, they're essential to the meaning of his statement. He is not generalizing ALL females, just ones he knows ... markw@southwind.net