IDM Mailing Archive

Sorry to repost this to the list but I lost the original post. Anyone wanting to hear Kraftwerk's set at Tribal Gathering can point their browsers to http://www.andreas.de/kraftwerk/index.html The sound quality isn't the best but it gives you the flavor. Personally I found it kind of dissapointing. I was a big Kraftwerk fan years ago and it seemed more like a tired rehash. Its not musically bad in some absolute sense, and at times is really good. Its more like watching people try to recapture something from the past rather than press on. These were the innovators that really made modern techno happen (via early hip hop and detroit). Are these the Rolling Stones of techno or can they recapture it? -- Mark Edward Bowen Warmed Breakdown mb@gettins.bche.uic.edu

Excerpts from mail: 23-Oct-97 (idm) Kraftwerk@tribal Gath.. by "Mark Bowen"@gettins.bch

quoted 2 lines really made modern techno happen (via early hip hop and detroit). Are these

> really made modern techno happen (via early hip hop and detroit). Are these > the Rolling Stones of techno or can they recapture it?

If Kraftwerk were the Rolling Stones of techno, they'd have just finished recording a dingy trip hop record in the studio with the dust brothers. Aaron np: panacea "low profile darkness" (chrome)

On Thu, 23 Oct 1997 11:14:17 -0500 "Mark Bowen" <mb@gettins.bche.uic.edu> writes:

quoted 22 lines Sorry to repost this to the list but I lost the original post.

>Sorry to repost this to the list but I lost the original post. > >Anyone wanting to hear Kraftwerk's set at Tribal Gathering can point >their >browsers to > >http://www.andreas.de/kraftwerk/index.html > >The sound quality isn't the best but it gives you the flavor. >Personally I >found it kind of dissapointing. I was a big Kraftwerk fan years ago >and it >seemed more like a tired rehash. Its not musically bad in some >absolute sense, >and at times is really good. Its more like watching people try to >recapture >something from the past rather than press on. These were the >innovators that >really made modern techno happen (via early hip hop and detroit). Are >these >the Rolling Stones of techno or can they recapture it? >

based on all the commentary on the kraftwerk list regarding their two recent concerts, the consensus seems to be that they cannot....sad but true.... tom w np: matmos - s/t

quoted 7 lines really made modern techno happen (via early hip hop and detroit). Are

> >really made modern techno happen (via early hip hop and detroit). Are > >these > >the Rolling Stones of techno or can they recapture it? > > > based on all the commentary on the kraftwerk list regarding their two > recent concerts, the consensus seems to be that they cannot....sad but > true....

I don't really want to fire up the list into another Kraftwerk debate, but I'd like to voice an opinion. I don't think Kraftwerk have really "lost it" musically... I believe instead that it is now impossible for them to have the same appeal they once did, because the circumstances, or environment, that surrounds their work, is completely different than it was 20 years ago. The things that back then made their work seem fresh, exciting, and above all innovative, today obscures their talent, as they merely "fit in" to what the mainstream has accepted. I think Kraftwerk are a good exmple to point to as a group that started out as misfits, but slowly came into their own as other groups "borrowed" bits and pieces, reshaped, and evolved the grand spectrum of electronica into what we see today. on: Aux 88- Is It Man or Machine onLater: Shipment from Submerge, _the_ source for Detroit Techno, including just about every UR back-catalogue release. Stand by for mix tapes! -- jr

quoted 1 line really made modern techno happen (via early hip hop and detroit). Are

>> really made modern techno happen (via early hip hop and detroit). Are

these

quoted 5 lines the Rolling Stones of techno or can they recapture it?

>> the Rolling Stones of techno or can they recapture it? > >If Kraftwerk were the Rolling Stones of techno, they'd have just >finished recording a dingy trip hop record in the studio with the dust >brothers.

...but they haven't put _anything_ out, so they're closer to the "paul revere and the raiders," or "the turtles" of techno (as if it were possible to absorb the essence of a completely unrelated group of people and apply it to a cultural phenomenon that they never consciously participated in). just as well, i'd say, since they wouldn't come out with anything that could possibly stand up to the hype. of course, they are more than welcome to prove me wrong. eric onnow: o.s.t:"artificial night"(tape)

Excerpts from mail: 23-Oct-97 Re: (idm) Kraftwerk@tribal .. by Eric Hill@best.com

quoted 7 lines ...but they haven't put _anything_ out, so they're closer to the "paul

> ...but they haven't put _anything_ out, so they're closer to the "paul > revere and the raiders," or "the turtles" of techno (as if it were possible > to absorb the essence of a completely unrelated group of people and apply > it to a cultural phenomenon that they never consciously participated in). > just as well, i'd say, since they wouldn't come out with anything that > could possibly stand up to the hype. of course, they are more than welcome > to prove me wrong.

Maybe they're more like the KLF of techno.... errr.....I listened to mp3's of what I was told was the new 2k single. It didn't sound like anything new, other than a few new samples here and there, and a big brass band. Grr.... Aaron np: up bustle & out (ninjatune)

quoted 4 lines Maybe they're more like the KLF of techno.... errr.....I listened to

> Maybe they're more like the KLF of techno.... errr.....I listened to > mp3's of what I was told was the new 2k single. It didn't sound like > anything new, other than a few new samples here and there, and a big > brass band. Grr....

Ahhh.... but then, you see, you're missing the point of buying KLF releases. You don't buy them for the music... heaven knows they weren't out to create earth-shattering music. You buy their albums because of the _HYPE_... they're superstars! And they want you to give them money because they know how to work the system! That, and they delete things later on, thereby making them that much more valuable in their semi-rarity. KLF rule... altho they won't be seeing a dime from me unless I manage to find one of those supposedly limited to 3,333 singles that is supposed to already be out but I've yet to see mention of and nobody on the mail order front seems capable of importing into this country. *sigh*. -- jr

quoted 12 lines ...but they haven't put _anything_ out, so they're closer to the "paul

>> ...but they haven't put _anything_ out, so they're closer to the "paul >> revere and the raiders," or "the turtles" of techno (as if it were possible >> to absorb the essence of a completely unrelated group of people and apply >> it to a cultural phenomenon that they never consciously participated in). >> just as well, i'd say, since they wouldn't come out with anything that >> could possibly stand up to the hype. of course, they are more than welcome >> to prove me wrong. > >Maybe they're more like the KLF of techno.... errr.....I listened to >mp3's of what I was told was the new 2k single. It didn't sound like >anything new, other than a few new samples here and there, and a big >brass band. Grr....

i screwed up at the top there: they _aren't_ the "whoever" of techno because they aren't currently relentlessly touring like those county-fair leftovers, but pretty much any route they take that doesn't lead to their leaving the whole kraftwerk thing alone will put them there, with ah-ha opening up. aside from 'chill out,' the klf's organizing principle seemed to have a lot more to do with getting over on somebody or somthing (maybe _including_ the chill out, but i haven't distilled it from there yet), serving an oblique agenda for which music was just a vehicle. with kraftwerk, especially after hearing that new track from the tribal gathering, it's kind of obvious that their output will be limited to a nostalgic version of a style that, though synthpop history is largely organized around certain kw releases, is now much larger than them and vibrantly illustrated by hab, the detroit<=>cologne axis, bochum welt, phil klein, atom heart, etc. eric onnow: ruins:burning stone(shimmy disc)

All, At 17:50 1997-10-23 -0400, Aaron S Michelson wrote:

quoted 4 lines Maybe they're more like the KLF of techno.... errr.....I listened to

>Maybe they're more like the KLF of techno.... errr.....I listened to >mp3's of what I was told was the new 2k single. It didn't sound like >anything new, other than a few new samples here and there, and a big >brass band. Grr....

Hmm... Let me just remind you all that Kraftwerk has always been like this... 6 Years between releases isn't too surprising... Anyway, you can't expect one band (or 2 people whichever) to radically change the whole music world more than once. Fe. - sale/wants: http://gargamel.com/frankie ''' = ) - =-= = '''''''''' - - plodulism!: http://gargamel.com/plod -->--> -/ - - - ] '''''''' - - dot records: http://gargamel.com/dot '''''' = -.. =-= = '''''''''' -

quoted 2 lines Let me just remind you all that Kraftwerk has always been like this... 6

>Let me just remind you all that Kraftwerk has always been like this... 6 >Years between releases isn't too surprising...

1972 Kraftwerk 2 1973 Ralf & Florian 1974 Autobahn 1975 Radio-Activity 1977 Trans-Europe Express 1978 The Man-Machine 5 releases in 6 years isn't too surprising... C. -- Chris.Hilker (cspot@hyperreal.org) "Sex is the darndest nougat murder, something something e-mail something something la la la la beable beable trousers and dingaling nougat..."

Excerpts from mail: 24-Oct-97 Re: (idm) Kraftwerk@tribal .. by "Franz Enmark"@gargamel.

quoted 4 lines Let me just remind you all that Kraftwerk has always been like this... 6

> Let me just remind you all that Kraftwerk has always been like this... 6 > Years between releases isn't too surprising... Anyway, you can't expect one > band (or 2 people whichever) to radically change the whole music world more > than once.

What do you mean? Richard James does it everytime he puts out new material! Aaron np: shades of orion 2 (fax)

At 00:49 1997-10-24 -0700, Chris.Hilker wrote:

quoted 6 lines 1972 Kraftwerk 2

>1972 Kraftwerk 2 >1973 Ralf & Florian >1974 Autobahn >1975 Radio-Activity >1977 Trans-Europe Express >1978 The Man-Machine

1981 Computerwelt 1986 Electric Café 1991 The Mix [...] Fe. - sale/wants: http://gargamel.com/frankie ''' = ) - =-= = '''''''''' - - plodulism!: http://gargamel.com/plod -->--> -/ - - - ] '''''''' - - dot records: http://gargamel.com/dot '''''' = -.. =-= = '''''''''' -