IDM Mailing Archive

Message-ID: <38C59AA8.990@bellsouth.net> Date: Tue, 07 Mar 2000 19:11:20 -0500 From: Christian Laburu <laburu@bellsouth.net> Reply-To: laburu@bellsouth.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01C-BLS20 (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: idm@hyperreal.com Subject: fuck yes, napster! Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit im a total music whore...every man for himself..this is a crazy world..if i get phat tracks for free more power to me, cause i barely have money to spend...who agrees here? hasnt music in the past always been for people with money? doesnt seem so ethical(what is the ethic? spending money to buy or selling yr music like a whore?) but hey, music is for the masses...unfortunately a lot of people into IDM are also up w/ the computer scene so it might have a big effect..ethically, it all comes down to a person's choice of willing to spend the money to support the artist. doesnt it? d --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

Christian Laburu wrote:

quoted 10 lines im a total music whore...every man for himself..this is a crazy

> im a total music whore...every man for himself..this is a crazy > world..if i get phat tracks for free more power to me, cause i barely > have money to spend...who agrees here? hasnt music in the past always > been for people with money? > doesnt seem so ethical(what is the ethic? spending money to buy or > selling yr music like a whore?) but hey, music is for the > masses...unfortunately a lot of people into IDM are also up w/ the > computer scene so it might have a big effect..ethically, it all comes > down to a person's choice of willing to spend the money to support the > artist. doesnt it?

im a total car whore...every man for himself..this is a crazy world..if i get phat cars for free more power to me, cause i barely have money to spend..who agrees here? haven't cars in the past always been for people with money? doesn't seem so ethical(what is the ethic? spending money to buy or selling yr car like a whore?) but hey cars are for the masses.. unfortunately a lot of people into fast cars are also up with the car theft scene so it might have a big effect..ethically, it all comes down to a person's choice of willing to spend the money to support the car manufacturer. doesnt it? ---------- bullshit. Replace tbe word 'music' with any 'item for sale' in your post and you realized how completely FUCKED this argument is. theft is theft. If someone is expecting to get paid for something they made/provide and you take it for free without their consent, that is stealing. I'm not trying to pass moral judgements on anyone here, I'm just pointing out how some people have the most twisted way of rationalizing their actions. Personally, I download aproximently a gig a day via napster. Guess how I rationalize it? I only download things I OWN (or are 'freely distributable') and am too lazy to record off vinyl/rip off cd and encode for my personal use. I don't even feel the least bit bad about it since i've spent WELL over a hundred thousand dollars during the last 20 years on the music I love. Yes, music is for people with money, as are cars, computers, software, video games, telephones, books, shelter, clothes, food, etc. There is a BIG difference between being RICH and having money. Any person with a job has money. Get a fucking job and you too will have money. If not, you can do without. brockout. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

: bullshit. : : Replace tbe word 'music' with any 'item for sale' in your post and you : realized how completely FUCKED this argument is. : : theft is theft. goddamn these threads are so pointless. people can only govern their own actions. if someone wants to copy MP3's fine, there should be some legal system to deal with it, and isn't there? its just not inforced. and if someone treasures their vinyl or neatly tDR designed CD, and can't stand the thought of having ugly looking CDR's laying around, fine. whats right and wrong to you is completely different to somebody else. and trying to change that other persons point of view is fucking pointless. theft is theft. something is missing. copying is copying. source is still there. unlike theft of material items. and you can make charts and graphs of all the money lost that you want. hell thats their excuse for high prices on music, a percentage for pirating figured into the price. information is information. once anything gets put in digital form you can argue and yell till your head explodes / but their just hasn't been an effective way of dealing with it. but at the end of the day its hard for me to beleive that aphex twin is really out 10 grand. but then again aphex is a poor example / because he hasn't put shit out in the last three years, and says he has enough money he doesn't have to. whatever gets him through his day, and me mine. belch. klint. and what release was aphex twins remix of autumn acid on? --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

Brock Suter wrote:

quoted 55 lines great post, if the purpose of music was a functional purpose. unfortunately cars serve a f

> > great post, if the purpose of music was a functional purpose. unfortunately cars serve a function where as music has an emotional foundation that unfortunately drives peoples lives(record industry). > > im a total car whore...every man for himself..this is a crazy world..if > i get phat cars for free more power to me, cause i barely have money to > spend..who agrees here? haven't cars in the past always been for people > with money? > doesn't seem so ethical(what is the ethic? spending money to buy or > selling yr car like a whore?) but hey cars are for the masses.. > unfortunately a lot of people into fast cars are also up with the car > theft scene so it might have a big effect..ethically, it all comes down > to a person's choice of willing to spend the money to support the car > manufacturer. doesnt it? > > ---------- > > bullshit. > > Replace tbe word 'music' with any 'item for sale' in your post and you > realized how completely FUCKED this argument is. > > theft is theft. > > If someone is expecting to get paid for something they made/provide and > you take it for free without their consent, that is stealing. > > I'm not trying to pass moral judgements on anyone here, I'm just > pointing out how some people have the most twisted way of > rationalizing their actions. > > Personally, I download aproximently a gig a day via napster. > > Guess how I rationalize it? > > I only download things I OWN (or are 'freely distributable') and am too > lazy to record off vinyl/rip off cd and encode for my personal use. I > don't even feel the least bit bad about it since i've spent WELL over a > hundred thousand dollars during the last 20 years on the music I love. > > Yes, music is for people with money, as are cars, computers, software, > video games, telephones, books, shelter, clothes, food, etc. > > There is a BIG difference between being RICH and having money. > > Any person with a job has money. > > Get a fucking job and you too will have money. > > If not, you can do without. > > brockout. > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org > For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

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: > people can only govern their own actions. : : Ah, but other people can also give their opinion of said people's : actions when they post to a public mailing list, no? well of course. and those not interested can skip over threads. : > if someone wants to copy MP3's fine, there : > should be some legal system to deal with it, : > and isn't there? its just not inforced. : But blatant advertising of this practice here is ok? no its not ok : but its not the only problems this list has. but i guess each person is going to have to deal with in their own way until people start getting booted for continued annoyances. like this post. : > and if someone treasures their vinyl or neatly : > tDR designed CD, and can't stand the thought : > of having ugly looking CDR's laying around, fine. : : I love it all, as long as the music is good. i love the music + the artwork. : That's why everything I ever say is IMHO. : : Guess what? : : Sometimes people will see your side of the arguement, : think about it a bit and maybe rethink their position. definately. and that works with some causes / some people. but the MP3/napster situation is pretty divided. and i know its harder to convince some broke bloke to buy records and quit ripping artists off, then it is to tell them stealing someones car. but thats a no brainer, right? : > theft is theft. something is missing. : : Huh? i was just saying most people consider theft when you actually take a possession from somebody. some people can't translate or fail to see that an MP3 is actually a lost dollar amount from an artist. used items could fall under this discussion too i beleive. : > copying is copying. source is still there. unlike : > theft of material items. and you can make charts : > and graphs of all the money lost that you want. : > hell thats their excuse for high prices on music, : > a percentage for pirating figured into the price. : : Nice rationalization you've got going there too. well whatever. the software industry has proved it. : > information is information. once anything : > gets put in digital form you can argue and yell till : > your head explodes / but their just hasn't been : > an effective way of dealing with it. but at the end of : > the day its hard for me to beleive that aphex twin is really out : > 10 grand. : : That wasn't the point of Christian's post, was it? it really was a general statement / a IMO. not directed towards the originator. : > and what release was aphex twins remix of autumn acid : > on? : : I'm not 100%, but I think this is a classic case of someone using : napster who has no idea what they were doing...titling a song. ah / figures. : Try µ-ziq's 'royal astronomy', perhaps? oh, so there is hope from M.P's latest output? allright i'll go back to my eyes wide shut DVD. how appropriate. klint.d --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

On Tue, 7 Mar 2000, klint.dixon wrote:

quoted 6 lines definately. and that works with some causes / some

> definately. and that works with some causes / some > people. but the MP3/napster situation is pretty > divided. and i know its harder to convince some > broke bloke to buy records and quit ripping artists > off, then it is to tell them stealing someones car. > but thats a no brainer, right?

If I steal your car, you don't have a car. If you download an MP3 of my music, another person is being exposed to my art, which is the point of art, correct? Anybody who says they're into music for the artistic outlet it allows and then bitches about not getting their royalties has to sit down and re-think their priorities. -- :: atomly :: atomly@atomly.com | atomly@atdot.org | atomly@cyrus.net http://www.atomly.com | http://www.mp3.com/atomly [CELL|(888)522.3830] | [CELL|(701)729.1631] | [HOME|(651)748.8676] --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

Excerpts from mail: 7-Mar-100 Re: (idm) fuck yes, napster! by atomly@atomly.com

quoted 3 lines If I steal your car, you don't have a car. If you download an MP3 of my

> If I steal your car, you don't have a car. If you download an MP3 of my > music, another person is being exposed to my art, which is the point of > art, correct?

Let's get our analogies straight. If I went to a Ford dealer and stole the blueprints of a car, reproduced it at home and gave away cheap reproductions of the car to my friends, then the Ford dealership would lose money because no one would buy the original. ! ObIDM: Well nothing, actually. Haven't heard anything that inspiring for a while. Though I still haven't picked up the new Bola 12" yet.... Aaron --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

On Tue, 7 Mar 2000, Aaron S Michelson wrote:

quoted 5 lines If I went to a Ford dealer and stole the blueprints

> If I went to a Ford dealer and stole the blueprints > of a car, reproduced it at home and gave away cheap > reproductions of the car to my friends, then the > Ford dealership would lose money because no one > would buy the original.

Yea, this analogy works much better, I agree. I'm still not that opposed to it, but that's probably just my intellectual property outlook coming into things. :)

quoted 3 lines ObIDM: Well nothing, actually. Haven't heard

> ObIDM: Well nothing, actually. Haven't heard > anything that inspiring for a while. Though I still > haven't picked up the new Bola 12" yet....

ObIDM (man, I haven't seen an ob* since I used to frequent Usenet): Venetian Snares - Greg Hates Car Culture - HOTF (http://www.c8.com/hotf) buy it. Personal Discourse is worth it in itself (check out http://www.tdb.mb.ca/hardcorps for the MP3) -- :: atomly :: atomly@atomly.com | atomly@atdot.org | atomly@cyrus.net http://www.atomly.com | http://www.mp3.com/atomly [CELL|(888)522.3830] | [CELL|(701)729.1631] | [HOME|(651)748.8676] --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

a

quoted 9 lines If I steal your car, you don't have a car. If you download an MP3 of my

> > If I steal your car, you don't have a car. If you download an MP3 of my > music, another person is being exposed to my art, which is the point of > art, correct? > > Anybody who says they're into music for the artistic outlet it allows and > then bitches about not getting their royalties has to sit down and > re-think their priorities. >

hell yeah!...thats what its all about!!!

quoted 10 lines --

> -- > :: atomly :: > > atomly@atomly.com | atomly@atdot.org | atomly@cyrus.net > http://www.atomly.com | http://www.mp3.com/atomly > [CELL|(888)522.3830] | [CELL|(701)729.1631] | [HOME|(651)748.8676] > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org > For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

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i know this thread is getting a mite tedious as it is nothing but "your ethics versus mine" but i'll try and pull an ernie by summing some things up *not valleygirl style though =)* since i possess a cable modem, it's only natural that i have the ability to download mp3's in mass amounts. that i do. i will not lie. i download them and burn them. the only difference is that if it's actually good, no matter how rare it is, i'll try and find it. in the past month, i've spent over a grand building up my IDM collection and it's much more satisfying than mp3's. i only see mp3's as a sort of "practical sampler" where you can actually download and burn the album to see if it will fit the test of time. i download chemical brother's "surrender" (cuz i had nothing else to download) and saw that it was only good for one listen. i saved myself more money to buy another album from an artist i genuinely enjoy than someone technopop band who doesn't even care. i realize that it is probably not the case with most people but whatever money i have goes to buying records of stuff i hear. i have tried to sway from that unlearned guess thing at a shop (I know everyone's experienced this before) i remember i stumbled upon autechre 2 years ago on a guess when i picked up tri repetae on cd. but anyway, (crux of my speech?) i think mp3s can be seen as an accelerator in the quality of music if the musicians know that people, such as myself, will be evaluating their work before they purchase. i invite anyone to call me ethically challenged if they disagree with what i just said. i also think it is ethically challenged if jenkinson made me pay $25 for selection 16 considering the quality of it. it's a two way street. 25 dollars takes 4 and a half hours of YOUR labour to earn. whatever, i hope that sheds some light. ranting transmission complete shaun -- The only certainty is that there is nothing certain Pliny the Elder (c.23-79)