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(idm) bjerk

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1997-10-01 00:44[sm] (idm) bjerk
1997-10-01 05:58Gonzi 'Fresh' Merchan Re: (idm) bjerk
└─ 1997-10-01 07:15Chris.Hilker Re: (idm) bjerk
└─ 1997-10-01 13:02Che Re: (idm) bjerk
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1997-10-01 00:44[sm]bjerk, criticism can only be metered on one thing and one thing alone, the music, that's w
From:
[sm]
To:
Date:
Wed, 01 Oct 1997 00:44:50 +0000
Subject:
(idm) bjerk
permalink · <34319D01.7ED2@dial.pipex.com>
bjerk, criticism can only be metered on one thing and one thing alone, the music, that's why it's presumptuous for gonzi to attack bjork's album without hearing it first, gonz cites cylob as an counter-example of an artist producing music in the way he thinks it ‘should be done’, but he is subscribing to the hackneyed romantic notion of the "struggling artist", as joe carducci pointed out in his *excellent* book ‘rock and the pop narcotic’, if you feed any audience a mystique, that very soon becomes more important that the actual art being produced and allows a convenient escape route from criticism [hello mr. james], bad music is bad music not matter what circumstances it is produced under, same goes for good music the problem most people like gonzi have with bjork's music is that it [can not] be romantizied about, financed by a major label & worked on by a host of hired hands, bjork toys with the latest 'in" producers, as ken said in a search for credibility, what she is doing could be seen as a shrewd move, she is no dummy where electronic music is concerned, she was checking mixmaster morris out back in the days when most idm’ers were still listening to kiss and no matter what her motives, it could only be a good thing that the music of ‘underground’ producers is reaching the ‘overground’ market. as someone correctly pointed out if she was looking for a quick buck van helden & oakenfold would have been safer bets than plaid & mark bell, how would every one feel if what she started working with afx then? [she’s already laid down tracks with tom jenkinson] in the first place i think franz might have been playing devils advocate with his suggestion that bjork was more innovative than freeform, but it depends on how you define innovative, to me innovation is all about pushing forward the barriers, in whatever way possible, gonzi has to face up to the fact that [now] the music of rephlex is [no more innovative] or [challenging] than bjorks, to pretend otherwise is self delusion rephlex retains the same subtle approach to cultural appropriation within an admittedly more micro-cosmic specialist market, at the end of the day it’s still an attempt to seem to get 'with it', [but in no less a cynical way than bjork] re: the recent dip into sub genres like japanese noise, rephlex don’t go out on a limb and release material by true sonic innovators like but violent onsen geisha, aube, masonnatoy or otomo yoshidie, but instead play it safe with the media friendly ‘wackyness’ of sam & valley . bjorks work stands tall or falls down on the music alone, not the peripherals my 2p stuart @ mfr -- http://dialspace.dial.pipex.com/mfr/ cutting edge mail order..elecktronic label [esoteric, non-generic material wanted]
1997-10-01 05:58Gonzi 'Fresh' Merchan> criticism can only be metered on one thing and one thing alone, the music, that's why >
From:
Gonzi 'Fresh' Merchan
To:
Date:
Tue, 30 Sep 1997 22:58:20 -0700
Subject:
Re: (idm) bjerk
permalink · <3431E67C.1ABBF22B@linkonline.net>
quoted 4 lines criticism can only be metered on one thing and one thing alone, the music, that's why> criticism can only be metered on one thing and one thing alone, the music, that's why > it's presumptuous for gonzi to attack bjork's album without hearing it first, gonz cites > cylob as an counter-example of an artist producing music in the way he thinks it ‘should > be done’
I love it. This is like playing telephone - every time someone repeats it back it sounds different. The point I I was trying to make was that Bjork does her tracks one way and Cylob does his another and that I think Cylob deserves more credit for the end product than Bjork does. This has nothing to do with the whole Mainstream vs. Underground debate, it is simply an opinion based on their working methods (as i understand them). BTW, before this whole thread gets started up again let me say that I understand some list members have different opinions, but I just want to re-state what I originally meant to say as it seems to have been lost somewhere along the line and turned into something it was never intended to be.
quoted 2 lines the problem most people like gonzi have with bjork's music is that it [can not] be> the problem most people like gonzi have with bjork's music is that it [can not] be > romantizied about, financed by a major label & worked on by a host of hired hands
hmmm. people 'like' me? There have been fortunes made by those romanticizing the music of Elvis, the Beatles, The Beach Boys etc. There's never been a conflict between romance and capital in music as far as I can discern.
quoted 2 lines it could only be a good> it could only be a good > thing that the music of ‘underground’ producers is reaching the ‘overground’ market.
I wonder what you're basing this opinion on? Did punk, grunge or any of the other genres recently thrust into the mainstream benefit from the attention? That is to say, was better music produced because of the genres move into the 'overground'? Most music fans would say no, if anything worse music was produced by a flood of imitators trying to cash in.
quoted 2 lines rephlex retains the same subtle approach to cultural appropriation within an admittedly> rephlex retains the same subtle approach to cultural appropriation within an admittedly > more micro-cosmic specialist market
Oh please. Goon, Matt Jones and DMX are not the way one seems 'with it' in today's IDM world (if the opinions of the list members are any indication). Cultural appropriation or having a laugh with your mates? You be the judge. Or should they be taking their cues from those boys up north as every other label in our genre seems to be these days?
quoted 1 line play it safe with the media friendly ‘wackyness’ of sam & valley .> play it safe with the media friendly ‘wackyness’ of sam & valley .
hehe, ADK will be happy to hear that. I'm sure his phone has been ringing off the hook from the press calling for interviews.
quoted 1 line bjorks work stands tall or falls down on the music alone, not the peripherals> bjorks work stands tall or falls down on the music alone, not the peripherals
I suppose those magazine covers and profiles of her wacky self the elf never fit into the equation, eh? In an ideal world all music would stand or fall based on the sounds alone. This is not an ideal world. gnz.
1997-10-01 07:15Chris.Hilker>> the problem most people like gonzi have with bjork's music is that it [can not] be >> r
From:
Chris.Hilker
To:
Ironic Dance Music
Date:
Wed, 1 Oct 1997 00:15:28 -0700
Subject:
Re: (idm) bjerk
Reply to:
Re: (idm) bjerk
permalink · <l03010d01b057a8c0b594@[4.4.0.196]>
quoted 7 lines the problem most people like gonzi have with bjork's music is that it [can not] be>> the problem most people like gonzi have with bjork's music is that it [can not] be >> romantizied about, financed by a major label & worked on by a host of hired hands > >hmmm. people 'like' me? There have been fortunes made by those >romanticizing the music of Elvis, the Beatles, The Beach Boys etc. >There's never been a conflict between romance and capital in music as >far as I can discern.
Stuart wasn't saying that *nobody* can romanticize major-label records, just that "people like Gonzi" can't. People like Gonzi* think "eeew, this is on a major label and lots of corporate money was spent on creating, promoting, and marketing it - I'll just buy this *limited-edition* *import* with Stunning Minimal DR Artwork and "magic gum" that's shaped like the Rephlex logo and has a Pac Man game on it and the guy who made it has a Really! Huge! Beard! and drives a tank and smokes a lot of weed and his studio is in his bedroom and he has a day job!" * Note that this is not a characterization of Gonzi himself but an exaggerated composite based on both his net persona and comments made on this list by various people over time, many of whom may be very unlike Gonzi.
quoted 1 line This is not an ideal world.>This is not an ideal world.
It's not? You mean I can't have all the candy in the universe? I want a refund! C. -- Chris.Hilker (cspot@hyperreal.org) "One being, that talking about things, while not exactly causing them to happen, does cause something,-- which is almost the same, tho' not quite. Unless it is possible to smoke a Potatoe."
1997-10-01 13:02CheFuck the mainstream. Fuck the underground. It's all music. Do you like it? That's all that
From:
Che
To:
Intelligent Dumb Music
Date:
Wed, 1 Oct 1997 13:02:36 +0000 ()
Subject:
Re: (idm) bjerk
Reply to:
Re: (idm) bjerk
permalink · <Pine.BSD.3.91.971001125239.16032A-100000@beacon.synthcom.com>
Fuck the mainstream. Fuck the underground. It's all music. Do you like it? That's all that matters. Bjork is the only vocalist whose music I buy. I only buy the collaborations with IDM types, because that's all I like. If you don't like them, don't buy them. But please don't bitch about their credibility. As for Ken/Black Dog, there's nothing I would like more than for you to have so much money that you could hire the LSO if you needed a string sample. I trust that whatever you did with it would be just as brilliant as what you did with that Indian Film Music string sample on Adverts. Che