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Re: (idm) [review] Bj\u00F8rk - Homogenic (reality check)

4 messages · 4 participants · spans 2 days · search this subject
◇ merged from 2 subjects: (idm) [review] bj\u00f8rk - homogenic (reality check) · (idm) [review] bj\u00f8rk - homogenic: far from the original
1997-09-26 15:06Misha Gubarev Re: (idm) [review] Bj\u00F8rk - Homogenic (reality check)
└─ 1997-09-26 18:58Nate Harrison [Digital Magician Inc] Re: (idm) [review] Bj\u00F8rk - Homogenic (reality check)
└─ 1997-09-27 00:18Ryan Richard Whitehead Re: (idm) [review] Bj\u00F8rk - Homogenic: FAR FROM THE ORIGINAL
└─ 1997-09-28 19:19Mark Kolmar Re: (idm) [review] Bj\u00F8rk - Homogenic: FAR FROM THE ORIGINAL
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1997-09-26 15:06Misha Gubarev<rant> Bjork chose a different *form* of self-expression (pop) just because the boundaries
From:
Misha Gubarev
To:
Date:
Fri, 26 Sep 1997 11:06:04 -0400
Subject:
Re: (idm) [review] Bj\u00F8rk - Homogenic (reality check)
permalink · <342BCF5C.8FCAC9E6@dataart.com>
<rant> Bjork chose a different *form* of self-expression (pop) just because the boundaries of "underground" or "avant-garde" became restrictive. She's exploring the pop culture. In the process she tries different idioms just because she likes to play. A lot of idm is pure form without content. Form-driven art is not original and therefore boring. The intellectual snobbery, in my opinion, belongs to the category of fraternity type attitude. And oh yeah, a day job is the MINUS, not the plus. </rant>
quoted 2 lines Bjork: 100 'producers' and 'collaborators.' 10 zillion dollars.>Bjork: 100 'producers' and 'collaborators.' 10 zillion dollars. >Cylob: One geezer in his bedroom. And he has a day job.
1997-09-26 18:58Nate Harrison [Digital Magician Inc]you wrote: Form-driven art is not original and therefore boring. I write: hmmm....I beg to
From:
Nate Harrison [Digital Magician Inc]
To:
Misha Gubarev
Cc:
Date:
Fri, 26 Sep 1997 18:58:54 +0000 ()
Subject:
Re: (idm) [review] Bj\u00F8rk - Homogenic (reality check)
Reply to:
Re: (idm) [review] Bj\u00F8rk - Homogenic (reality check)
permalink · <Pine.BSF.3.95.970926185616.17996A-100000@www.webelite.com>
you wrote: Form-driven art is not original and therefore boring. I write: hmmm....I beg to differ. Should we therefore nullify all of the visual arts of the past 1oo years? I would say it's limited and problematic, but certainly not unoriginal and boring. but that's for another list... Nate Nate Harrison Digital Magician Inc. www.digimagician.com nate@digimagician.com 313.994.7316
1997-09-27 00:18Ryan Richard Whitehead> you wrote: > > Form-driven art is not original and therefore boring. > > I write: > > hm
From:
Ryan Richard Whitehead
To:
Nate Harrison [Digital Magician Inc]
Cc:
Misha Gubarev ,
Date:
Fri, 26 Sep 1997 17:18:10 -0700 (PDT)
Subject:
Re: (idm) [review] Bj\u00F8rk - Homogenic: FAR FROM THE ORIGINAL
Reply to:
Re: (idm) [review] Bj\u00F8rk - Homogenic (reality check)
permalink · <Pine.HPP.3.95.970926170230.24275A-100000@apollo0.Stanford.EDU>
quoted 13 lines you wrote:> you wrote: > > Form-driven art is not original and therefore boring. > > I write: > > hmmm....I beg to differ. Should we therefore nullify all of the visual > arts of the past 1oo years? I would say it's limited and problematic, but > certainly not unoriginal and boring. > > but that's for another list... > > Nate
form is a result of constraint. ever stare at a blank page/canvas/sheet of tablature and feel overwhelmed? Schoenburg did--he pushed tonality as far as he could, and when it broke stopped composing for several years. he spit out short bursts, pieces trying to self-organize into 'Music.' how to motivate beginning, ending? only as a struggle to put into form, to mediate, to transmit through a medium, to map, a landform. limitlessness is implacable--it contains no truth, permits everything, and is the ultimater horror. kurtz's revelation--kubrick, conrad, brando. Archimedes wanted a point to stand on--a forum for speaking, a wall for reverberation. George Perec, Italo Calvino, Gilbert Sorrentino (writers) wrote immense lipograms, anagrams, false translations, houses of cards . . . all because most people embark with realizing their hidden formalisms. all these people i have mentioned (and countless others) have experienced formlessness radically, and recoiled from it. intuition is how we lie to ourselves--we read small signs and claim that it's all impulsive. Granted, i don't believe that it is necessary to do as the serialists desire and make every element of every larger set a serially motivated element, BUT WHY THE ANTI-FORMALISM? formal doesn't mean suit and tie. there are small forms for minor musics, marginal and articulate. ryan whitehead
1997-09-28 19:19Mark KolmarOn Fri, 26 Sep 1997, Ryan Richard Whitehead wrote: > ever stare at a blank page/canvas/she
From:
Mark Kolmar
To:
Ryan Richard Whitehead
Cc:
Nate Harrison [Digital Magician Inc] ,
Date:
Sun, 28 Sep 1997 14:19:26 -0500 (CDT)
Subject:
Re: (idm) [review] Bj\u00F8rk - Homogenic: FAR FROM THE ORIGINAL
Reply to:
Re: (idm) [review] Bj\u00F8rk - Homogenic: FAR FROM THE ORIGINAL
permalink · <Pine.SOL.3.95.970928135555.19537C-100000@typhoon>
On Fri, 26 Sep 1997, Ryan Richard Whitehead wrote:
quoted 4 lines ever stare at a blank page/canvas/sheet of tablature and feel overwhelmed?> ever stare at a blank page/canvas/sheet of tablature and feel overwhelmed? > Schoenburg did--he pushed tonality as far as he could, and when it broke > stopped composing for several years. he spit out short bursts, pieces > trying to self-organize into 'Music.'
The Schoenberg I like best are the very short freely-atonal pieces for piano. They are from the period you describe, when the old models for organization had fallen apart, and a new set of models hadn't been established.
quoted 3 lines how to motivate> how to motivate > beginning, ending? only as a struggle to put into form, to > mediate, to transmit through a medium, to map, a landform.
That was exactly the struggle. Once you ditch the old rules completely, you're on your own. That can be a problem for the listener. People have trouble enjoying a symphony sometimes because they don't understand sonata form (primary theme, secondary theme, variation/development, recap). People have trouble with hip-hop or Detroit/Berlin techno because the action is not where they expect it to be. Rhythm is a very powerful organizational foundation which can permit limitless possibilities on top of it.
quoted 3 lines limitlessness> limitlessness > is implacable--it contains no truth, permits everything, and is the > ultimater horror.
Not at all. You seem like you might be the type who insists that art will inevitably return to traditional forms because the avant-garde is a bunch of claptrap from which nobody can take any meaning. Communication and meaning are possible, and there is still room for that, but art is also developing beyond expression of truth and meaning, and into pure sight, sound, and substance. --Mark __ <http://www.xnet.com/~mkolmar/BurningRome> < MPEG & RA audio clips > m u s i c : w e b : s o u n d d e s i g n : h t m l : c g i : e t c "Put them who threaten possessions and power together with them who offend our tastes in sex and dope. Those who are touched, put them in asylums. Pack off old ones to senior communities, nursing homes. Children? Keep them prisoner. Babysitter as warden. School. 15 to 20 years, army afterward. Liberated, we live in prison. Know this, know that. Kill us before we die." -- John Cage