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Re: (idm) minidiscs and vinyl

3 messages · 2 participants · spans 1 day · search this subject
◇ merged from 2 subjects: (idm) minidiscs and vinyl · (idm) my definitive personal turntable story.
1997-08-07 03:14Rusty Householter Re: (idm) My definitive personal turntable story.
└─ 1997-08-07 04:57Emanuel Borsboom Re: (idm) minidiscs and vinyl
1997-08-07 06:26Rusty Householter Re: (idm) minidiscs and vinyl
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1997-08-07 03:14Rusty HouseholterAt 12:10 AM 8/6/97 -0400, you wrote: >> the most meaningless part of a consitantly meaning
From:
Rusty Householter
To:
Shane Beers
Cc:
Date:
Wed, 06 Aug 1997 22:14:42 -0500
Subject:
Re: (idm) My definitive personal turntable story.
permalink · <3.0.32.19970806221440.0074bc18@mtco.com>
At 12:10 AM 8/6/97 -0400, you wrote:
quoted 5 lines the most meaningless part of a consitantly meaningless argument.>> the most meaningless part of a consitantly meaningless argument. >> people >> like vinyl, for the same reason they like little cuddly wuzzy fuzz >> bunnies. there is no reason. you're anthropomorphizing a recording >> medium. records are no more human than cds.
Exactly, I think people are fooled because there vacuum tube preamps for there turntables warm up and they think "Oh man it has lights and it's hotter than hell, it's alive!"
quoted 5 lines OK. The reason I listen to music is to get that *feeling* you get when>OK. The reason I listen to music is to get that *feeling* you get when >one listens to great music. Music is emotional. Music should be a >presonal, interactive thing. Which is what vinyl is, so much more than >CD's. There is not a more human quality, there isa more substancial >quality to them.
What is it? Do you like watching something spin? CD's spin but they are just smaller...maybe it's because vinyl spins slower...maybe its those pops...If you want the same experience put a cd in a cheap Discman and bump it and you get discrepancies!!!! How fun!!!
quoted 4 lines Also, it was mentioned somewhere else that records degrade with each>Also, it was mentioned somewhere else that records degrade with each >use. >Yeah, if you have a bad needle and scratch it up. Take care of things, >man.
You also have to wear special gloves when handling you records so no body oil gets on them and you might want to play it in a dustless environment cause that builds up, whereas CD's have a better record of playing perfect everytime even if dust is on them. I mean the only way to settle this arguement is to look at this thing scientifically. Feed your vinyl into your sound card and record it using SoundForge and compare your results with a CD...you'll be amazed at the results...CD's have a better frequency range than vinyl. Also compare your Mini-discs after recording something...I looked at a tape I made on a Dolby 3 head tape deck and a minidisc and low an behold the tape won out. Mini-discs have been known to flatten out there wave forms at certain frequecies like all recorded media, it's just that there is a little lower than tapes. Any buyers into this heated debat? Rusty
1997-08-07 04:57Emanuel BorsboomOn Wed, 6 Aug 1997, Rusty Householter wrote: > Also compare your > Mini-discs after record
From:
Emanuel Borsboom
To:
Date:
Wed, 6 Aug 1997 21:57:05 -0700 (PDT)
Subject:
Re: (idm) minidiscs and vinyl
Reply to:
Re: (idm) My definitive personal turntable story.
permalink · <Pine.BSF.3.95q.970806213737.1566A-100000@pof.zerius.com>
On Wed, 6 Aug 1997, Rusty Householter wrote:
quoted 6 lines Also compare your> Also compare your > Mini-discs after recording something...I looked at a tape I made on a Dolby > 3 head tape deck and a minidisc and low an behold the tape won out. > Mini-discs have been known to flatten out there wave forms at certain > frequecies like all recorded media, it's just that there is a little lower > than tapes.
Which ATRAC revision did the recorder use? Different revisions vary wildly in quality. ATRAC 1 (which the original equipment used) is really very bad. ATRAC 2 is better, but not great. ATRAC 3 is very good. Most audiophiles agree that ATRAC 4 sounds as good as DAT (blind tests, same DAC, etc). ATRAC 4.5 is somehow better than ATRAC 4, but not audibly. So unless your tests were done with the latest equipment, they're not valid. I suppose MiniDiscs would flatten the waveforms a little because of their compression which removes the frequencies we can't hear. While the waveforms may be a bit different, what you hear is the same (our ears and brains are far from perfect). I agree that a good tape deck does sound very good. But it's the degredation on playback that bothers me. And MiniDiscs still win out for portability and convenience. Oh, and I agree that esthetically, vinyl is much cooler. I too like watching it spin, the way you can understand and see exactly what's going on. I just love the image of a sharp needle scratching away at soft plastic, and the image of big blobs of dead skin, bacteria, and oils landing on it and getting in the way. It the end, though, it's the quality of the music and not the quality of the recording that counts. A little surface noise and some clicks and pops aren't going to stop me from enjoying it. -- Emanuel Borsboom -- Victoria B.C. Canada -- "complete with surface noise" [Home Page] http://zerius.com/manny/ [Java Synth] http://zerius.com/synth/ [Vocoder] http://zerius.com/vocoder/
1997-08-07 06:26Rusty HouseholterAt 09:57 PM 8/6/97 -0700, you wrote: >Which ATRAC revision did the recorder use? Different
From:
Rusty Householter
To:
Emanuel Borsboom
Cc:
Date:
Thu, 07 Aug 1997 01:26:48 -0500
Subject:
Re: (idm) minidiscs and vinyl
permalink · <3.0.32.19970807012645.00b2b080@mtco.com>
At 09:57 PM 8/6/97 -0700, you wrote:
quoted 3 lines Which ATRAC revision did the recorder use? Different revisions vary>Which ATRAC revision did the recorder use? Different revisions vary >wildly in quality. ATRAC 1 (which the original equipment used) is really >very bad. ATRAC 2 is better, but not great. ATRAC 3 is very good. Most
I think I was using ATRAC 3. I don't own my MD anymore. I want to replace it with a DAT instead. I think DAT players/recorders are really expensive though, that's what kind of drew me to buying a MD deck in the first place. I don't know but are DAT's going down in price?
quoted 3 lines audiophiles agree that ATRAC 4 sounds as good as DAT (blind tests, same>audiophiles agree that ATRAC 4 sounds as good as DAT (blind tests, same >DAC, etc). ATRAC 4.5 is somehow better than ATRAC 4, but not audibly. So >unless your tests were done with the latest equipment, they're not valid.
I believe you. I didn't find too much use in my MD recorder being that it was a home deck that I can't take to concerts. It only makes some nice mix tapes. I'll stick with my Dolby-S deck.
quoted 4 lines I suppose MiniDiscs would flatten the waveforms a little because of their>I suppose MiniDiscs would flatten the waveforms a little because of their >compression which removes the frequencies we can't hear. While the >waveforms may be a bit different, what you hear is the same (our ears and >brains are far from perfect).
I mean we can't hear the difference but "You can't tell the difference" is what people said when CD's just came out and people held onto their tapes. I mean tapes are good with a three head Dolby-S deck like mine but CD's sound good on almost any system. But I must admit I'm still trying to find flaws in digital recording methods.
quoted 3 lines I agree that a good tape deck does sound very good. But it's the>I agree that a good tape deck does sound very good. But it's the >degredation on playback that bothers me. And MiniDiscs still win out for >portability and convenience.
Ok, the price is still high though. I would only be convinced if Sony brought out a fairly cheap portable MD recorder. That might drive me back to the MD arena.
quoted 5 lines Oh, and I agree that esthetically, vinyl is much cooler. I too like>Oh, and I agree that esthetically, vinyl is much cooler. I too like >watching it spin, the way you can understand and see exactly what's going >on. I just love the image of a sharp needle scratching away at soft >plastic, and the image of big blobs of dead skin, bacteria, and oils >landing on it and getting in the way.
I'll stick to hitting the table that my portable CD player sits on to get that "Human" feel. I still don't understand everybodies obsession with vinyl, though.
quoted 3 lines It the end, though, it's the quality of the music and not the quality of>It the end, though, it's the quality of the music and not the quality of >the recording that counts. A little surface noise and some clicks and >pops aren't going to stop me from enjoying it.
For me they are. I'm quite like listening to things perfect, and the only time I want to hear it a little imperfect is at the concert of the performer, I'm a purist, so sue me. Rusty