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Re: (idm) anti-idm

11 messages · 9 participants · spans 3 days · search this subject
1997-06-07 00:32(idm) anti-idm
└─ 1997-06-08 10:23Ben Coffer Re: (idm) anti-idm
1997-06-07 13:37Che Re: (idm) anti-idm
1997-06-07 14:08Mark Bowen Re: (idm) anti-idm
1997-06-07 14:20April O'Neal Re: (idm) anti-idm
└─ 1997-06-08 10:29Ben Coffer Re: (idm) anti-idm
└─ 1997-06-09 15:59H James Harkins Re: (idm) anti-idm
1997-06-07 17:16ryoga Re: (idm) anti-idm
└─ 1997-06-07 18:24Chris.Hilker Re: (idm) anti-idm
└─ 1997-06-08 10:30Ben Coffer Re: (idm) anti-idm
1997-06-07 21:00thomas m weibrecht Re: (idm) anti-idm
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1997-06-07 00:32KaisrSolze@aol.comFor a decidedly different perspective on many of idm's favorites, go to http://members.aol
From:
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Date:
Fri, 6 Jun 1997 20:32:50 -0400 (EDT)
Subject:
(idm) anti-idm
permalink · <970606203249_577487939@emout02.mail.aol.com>
For a decidedly different perspective on many of idm's favorites, go to http://members.aol.com/blissout/sr2.htm Simon Reynolds writes for various decent papers, etc, and has been behind techstep for quite a while. He's a relatively intelligent, or at least thoughtful guy. Check his view on Squarepusher. I don't agree with Mr. Reynolds, but we seem to get stuck in a rut on this list from time to time(except for the Black Dog Droid, who likes to piss on the party on occasion). "This weirdy-beardy has done a few genuinely startling tracks, and is generally quite amusing. What galls is the sheer arrogance and temerity of Squarepusher and other similar "drill and bass" dilettantes --they actually believe they are improving on jungle!!! All that Squarepusher has brought to drum & bass is some Jaco Pastorius bass-frills, a dys-funk-tional rhythmic convolution, and a quirked-out daftness that recalls nobody so much as Primus. On a purely technical level, nothing that Squarepusher does with breakbeats surpasses engineer-poets like Hype, Aphrodite, Dillinja, 4 Hero or Danny Breaks, to mention only the most obvious leaders-in-the-field. It is only Squarepusher/Plug etc's distance from the scene that allows them to convolute the breakbeats beyond any use-value to DJ or dancer; the wilful incongruity of the samples is all well and good, but if junglists use the same old gangsta/cyberpunk soundbites and apocalyptic textures, it's because they're trying to create and sustain a vibe, a feeling-full and meaningful mood that crystallises a certain kind of worldview and life-stance. By comparison, drill and bass is vibe-less non-sense. The drill and bass/"fungle" concept seems to exist to make a certain sort of "margin-walker" feel okay about not really having engaged with jungle as a subculture. And of course, as with most soi disant progressive iniatives, drill and bass is utterly parasitic on its populist counterpart--do you really think the idea of chopping up breakbeats would have independently occurred to the weirdy-beardy technoids in a million years?" The rest of his page contains rants about Mo' Wax, Bukem, FSOL (which I agree with, having only heard Dead Cities), plus Mike P., RDJ, Orbital, etc. Keep an open mind. Sam
1997-06-08 10:23Ben CofferIn message <970606203249_577487939@emout02.mail.aol.com>, KaisrSolze@aol.com writes >occas
From:
Ben Coffer
To:
Date:
Sun, 8 Jun 1997 11:23:28 +0100
Subject:
Re: (idm) anti-idm
Reply to:
(idm) anti-idm
permalink · <MAuoBEAggomzEwEl@hybridgame.demon.co.uk>
In message <970606203249_577487939@emout02.mail.aol.com>, KaisrSolze@aol.com writes
quoted 5 lines occasion).>occasion). > "This weirdy-beardy has done a few genuinely startling tracks, and is >generally quite amusing. What galls is the sheer arrogance and temerity >of Squarepusher and other similar "drill and bass" dilettantes --they >actually believe they are improving on jungle!!! All that Squarepusher
Funnily enough....they are. At least they're taking it in another direction....what an idiot this simon reynolds is...Well, if he wants to admit his total lack of understanding in public then he's a brave guy, that's all. Also, it may be his opinion...but that's all it bloody is, his opinion....he certainly isn't god. -- Ben Coffer Hybrid Productions http://www.hybridgame.demon.co.uk/
1997-06-07 13:37CheAt 08:32 PM 6/6/97 -0400, KaisrSolze@aol.com wrote: >For a decidedly different perspective
From:
Che
To:
Intelligent Dumb Music
Date:
Sat, 7 Jun 1997 13:37:58 +0000 ()
Subject:
Re: (idm) anti-idm
permalink · <Pine.BSD.3.91.970607133451.10997B-100000@beacon.synthcom.com>
At 08:32 PM 6/6/97 -0400, KaisrSolze@aol.com wrote:
quoted 8 lines For a decidedly different perspective on many of idm's favorites, go to>For a decidedly different perspective on many of idm's favorites, go to >http://members.aol.com/blissout/sr2.htm >Simon Reynolds writes for various decent papers, etc, and has been behind >techstep for quite a while. He's a relatively intelligent, or at least >thoughtful guy. Check his view on Squarepusher. I don't agree with Mr. >Reynolds, but we seem to get stuck in a rut on this list from time to >time(except for the Black Dog Droid, who likes to piss on the party on >occasion).
Read closely and you'll find Mr. Reynolds is constantly contradicting himself - perhaps a symptom of wanting to be simultaneously trendy and bleeding edge. For instance, he pisses on Squarepusher for daring to threaten the orthodoxy of drum & bass by bringing in techno elements, while also claiming that he's been wishing for years that ambient/intelligent jungle & intelligent techno could cross-pollinate (see the Breakbeat Science blurb). He rails on about jungle's gentrification/muzak-isation, but woe be to him that rebels against the sameness created by the ultra-insular "scene" which he finds being a member of so necessary to establish the credentials of anyone making jungle. (and why DOES he insist on calling it jungle, anyway?) He slams Jockey Slut for "Detroit-pietism", while dropping the name of Suburban Knight on his year's best, not because Suburban Knight really did anything last year (or for that matter, in the last 5 years), but because he felt the need to display his own piety. Enjoy the wordplay, but don' take it seriously. Che
1997-06-07 14:08Mark BowenI must agree with the idea that squarepusher, while making good to excellent music, is not
From:
Mark Bowen
To:
,
Date:
Sat, 7 Jun 97 09:08:51 -0500
Subject:
Re: (idm) anti-idm
permalink · <9706071408.AA16433@gettins.bche.uic.edu>
I must agree with the idea that squarepusher, while making good to excellent music, is not really doing things that haven't been done. He may cut up breaks but so does source direct. SP certainly does cut them to a greater degree but at times it really does turn into noise (some may like this). SP is one point on a continuum. He is not outside the realm of jungle. He is only standing on the shoulders of those who came before him. Mark Edward Bowen Warmed Breakdown mb@gettins.bche.uic.edu
1997-06-07 14:20April O'NealMark Bowen wrote: > > I must agree with the idea that squarepusher, while making good to e
From:
April O'Neal
To:
Date:
Sun, 08 Jun 1997 00:20:55 +1000
Subject:
Re: (idm) anti-idm
permalink · <33996E45.247E@purescript.com.au>
Mark Bowen wrote:
quoted 7 lines I must agree with the idea that squarepusher, while making good to excellent> > I must agree with the idea that squarepusher, while making good to excellent > music, is not really doing things that haven't been done. He may cut up breaks > but so does source direct. SP certainly does cut them to a greater degree but > at times it really does turn into noise (some may like this). SP is one point > on a continuum. He is not outside the realm of jungle. He is only standing > on the shoulders of those who came before him.
That is true to a point, T-Power was doing experimental Drum and Bass when Jenkins was still hanging out with his raver friends in the early 90s, BUT.... Squarepusher has taken Jungle and taken it to the edge, even Aphex can't top that, but there is only so much you can do with jungle and thats why 'Hard Normal Daddy' has taken a sudden turn towards cheesy 70s disco funk and Tom knows that! ~~~~~~~~~~~~trapezoidamoeba~~~~~~~~~ giv@purescript.com.au~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~http://www1.loom.net.au/home/autumn
1997-06-08 10:29Ben CofferIn message <33996E45.247E@purescript.com.au>, April O'Neal <giv@purescript.com.au> writes
From:
Ben Coffer
To:
Date:
Sun, 8 Jun 1997 11:29:31 +0100
Subject:
Re: (idm) anti-idm
Reply to:
Re: (idm) anti-idm
permalink · <PwUotSALmomzEwG1@hybridgame.demon.co.uk>
In message <33996E45.247E@purescript.com.au>, April O'Neal <giv@purescript.com.au> writes
quoted 17 lines Mark Bowen wrote:>Mark Bowen wrote: >> >> I must agree with the idea that squarepusher, while making good to excellent >> music, is not really doing things that haven't been done. He may cut up >breaks >> but so does source direct. SP certainly does cut them to a greater degree but >> at times it really does turn into noise (some may like this). SP is one point >> on a continuum. He is not outside the realm of jungle. He is only standing >> on the shoulders of those who came before him. > >That is true to a point, T-Power was doing experimental Drum and Bass >when Jenkins was still hanging out with his raver friends in the early >90s, BUT.... Squarepusher has taken Jungle and taken it to the edge, >even Aphex can't top that, but there is only so much you can do with >jungle and thats why 'Hard Normal Daddy' has taken a sudden turn towards >cheesy 70s disco funk and Tom knows that! >
But it's not just about the music....with Squarepusher a lot of it is about his personality too! I learnt this when I saw his gig in Brighton a couple of weeks ago...his music took on a totally different perspective when it was evident that he knew exactly to the minutest detail what was going on in his tracks....excellent sense of humour, definitely. -- Ben Coffer Hybrid Productions http://www.hybridgame.demon.co.uk/
1997-06-09 15:59H James HarkinsOn Sun, 8 Jun 1997, Ben Coffer wrote: > But it's not just about the music....with Squarepu
From:
H James Harkins
To:
idm
Date:
Mon, 9 Jun 1997 11:59:47 -0400 (EDT)
Subject:
Re: (idm) anti-idm
Reply to:
Re: (idm) anti-idm
permalink · <Pine.SOL.3.91.970609115709.9646B-100000@carr2.acpub.duke.edu>
On Sun, 8 Jun 1997, Ben Coffer wrote:
quoted 5 lines But it's not just about the music....with Squarepusher a lot of it> But it's not just about the music....with Squarepusher a lot of it > is about his personality too! I learnt this when I saw his gig in > Brighton a couple of weeks ago...his music took on a totally different > perspective when it was evident that he knew exactly to the minutest > detail what was going on in his tracks....
"to the minutest detail"... so, you mean he's a *musician*, then? :) (I think he is) Seriously, if you make music and don't know in detail what you put in it, what are you doing anyway?
quoted 2 lines excellent sense of humour,>excellent sense of humour, > definitely.
Yes. Very nice to hear someone not take any scene too seriously. J ________ \ / | Bee women: "What kind of corn soldiers are you?" H. James Harkins | Arthur: "Umm, oh, er, we're, uh, we're colonels." jharkins@acpub.duke.edu | \/ | - from "The Tick," now on Comedy Central, 6PM M-F "If we keep our attention focused on the present, we can be sure of one thing, namely that whatever we are attending to in this moment will change..." -- Jon Kabat-Zinn
1997-06-07 17:16ryoga>> I must agree with the idea that squarepusher, while making good to excellent music, is
From:
ryoga
To:
Date:
Sat, 07 Jun 1997 13:16:09 -0400
Subject:
Re: (idm) anti-idm
permalink · <33999759.71A6@stratos.net>
quoted 1 line I must agree with the idea that squarepusher, while making good to>> I must agree with the idea that squarepusher, while making good to
excellent music, is not really doing things that haven't been done. He may cut up breaks but so does source direct. SP certainly does cut them to a greater degree but at times it really does turn into noise (some may like this). SP is one point on a continuum. He is not outside the realm of jungle. He is only standing on the shoulders of those who came before him.
quoted 6 lines That is true to a point, T-Power was doing experimental Drum and Bass> That is true to a point, T-Power was doing experimental Drum and Bass > when Jenkins was still hanging out with his raver friends in the early > 90s, BUT.... Squarepusher has taken Jungle and taken it to the edge, > even Aphex can't top that, but there is only so much you can do with > jungle and thats why 'Hard Normal Daddy' has taken a sudden turn towards > cheesy 70s disco funk and Tom knows that!
But you people forget what makes Tom J such an innovative music-maker. He is such an exciting instrementalist, playing his own bass lines, going places with his music and beats that we all forget about. He can turn the sounds of the world around us into the music we enjoy. shane
1997-06-07 18:24Chris.Hilker> But you people forget what makes Tom J such an innovative music-maker. >He is such an ex
From:
Chris.Hilker
To:
Ironic Dance Music
Date:
Sat, 7 Jun 1997 11:24:07 -0700
Subject:
Re: (idm) anti-idm
Reply to:
Re: (idm) anti-idm
permalink · <l03010d01afbf570d0b8d@[206.80.181.138]>
quoted 3 lines But you people forget what makes Tom J such an innovative music-maker.> But you people forget what makes Tom J such an innovative music-maker. >He is such an exciting instrementalist, playing his own bass lines, >going places with his music and beats that we all forget about.
U2 are the #1 IDM group! They are all exciting instrumentalists!
quoted 2 lines He can>He can >turn the sounds of the world around us into the music we enjoy.
You're thinking of Matt Herbert, not Squarepusher. C. -- C.Hilker (cspot@hyperreal.com) "We don't relax, we Rolex"
1997-06-08 10:30Ben CofferIn message <l03010d01afbf570d0b8d@[206.80.181.138]>, "Chris.Hilker" <cspot@hyperreal.com>
From:
Ben Coffer
To:
Date:
Sun, 8 Jun 1997 11:30:56 +0100
Subject:
Re: (idm) anti-idm
Reply to:
Re: (idm) anti-idm
permalink · <PAeoBUAgnomzEwlm@hybridgame.demon.co.uk>
In message <l03010d01afbf570d0b8d@[206.80.181.138]>, "Chris.Hilker" <cspot@hyperreal.com> writes
quoted 6 lines But you people forget what makes Tom J such an innovative music-maker.>> But you people forget what makes Tom J such an innovative music-maker. >>He is such an exciting instrementalist, playing his own bass lines, >>going places with his music and beats that we all forget about. > >U2 are the #1 IDM group! They are all exciting instrumentalists! >
None of their instrumentation excites me at all. -- Ben Coffer Hybrid Productions http://www.hybridgame.demon.co.uk/
1997-06-07 21:00thomas m weibrechtOn Sat, 7 Jun 1997 13:37:58 +0000 () Che <zeus8@synthcom.com> writes: > >Enjoy the wordpla
From:
thomas m weibrecht
To:
Cc:
Date:
Sat, 07 Jun 1997 17:00:52 EDT
Subject:
Re: (idm) anti-idm
permalink · <19970607.165634.7095.4.tweibrecht@juno.com>
On Sat, 7 Jun 1997 13:37:58 +0000 () Che <zeus8@synthcom.com> writes:
quoted 4 lines Enjoy the wordplay, but don' take it seriously.> >Enjoy the wordplay, but don' take it seriously. > >Che
does anyone take these assholes seriously? tom w np: grand funk railroad - we're an american band