IDM Mailing Archive

I was just discussing music with my mom, and she, not knowing what i listen to, told me I should get into jazz(which I like, I'm just less interested at this point in time). She started talkng about the whole improv thing, so I defended "IDM" as a live form of music. However, she got me thinking--for all this list's comparisons between idm and jazz, is there really a parallel? Is there any equivalent improvisation, especially among more than one person (after all, there are jazz sextets, etc., with 6 guys all playing off each other). Even djs are forced to play the compositions of others--they're limited by having an instrument not versatile in the way the sax is. What do the best live IDmers do--are they really able to do original improv with the tools they use? On a related note, not meaning to offend anyone (I haven't heard his music), why is there such a big Herbie Hancock love-in on this list? Here in NYC he's advertised by the radio station that bills itself as "the smoothest place on earth", also playing enny G and his ilk. My parents, both big into jazz, just laugh when I mention hancock's name--my dad called him profoundly uninteresting. Why that reaction from 2 openminded people? Are there people on this list who dislike him, and those of you who like him--what innovations did he make that older jazz musicians hadn't before him? Thanks much Sam

Are there people

quoted 3 lines on this list who dislike him, and those of you who like him--what innovations

>on this list who dislike him, and those of you who like him--what innovations >did he make that older jazz musicians hadn't before him? >Thanks much

Well, I suspect MOST of the IDMers on the list only know Herbie because of the "Future Shock" album. I'd be surprised to find out that a bigger percented of IDMers regularly buy Hancock albums. I personally think Herbie didn't really contribute anything that "different" or "great" that other's before him haven't done. His biggest contribution to the world was exposing Jazz orientated music to the masses who normally wouldn't get into Jazz. That's why you hear Hancock mixed in with Kenny (OH GOD NOT HIM AGAIN) G. Herbie was first. Then came Kenny a decade later. Anyway, that's my 2 cents worth. Ben Synaptic Records (Rick and Ben) 608 S. Broadway Denver, CO 80209 (303) 722-9428 (phone) (303) 722-9540 (fax) synaptic@eazy.net www.eazy.net/synaptic-records/

quoted 7 lines Are there people

> Are there people >>on this list who dislike him, and those of you who like him--what innovations >>did he make that older jazz musicians hadn't before him? >>Thanks much > >Well, I suspect MOST of the IDMers on the list only know Herbie because of >the "Future Shock" album.

Ya, I have a Rockit 12 inch...but I also enjoy those 70s funk LPs Mwandishi, Sextant, Thrust and the Fat Albert Sndtrk... ...but I'd never buy a kenny g...ick....and remember Herbie played on some very deep Miles Davis recordings.. my 2 cents...

Check out the Herbie Hancock track (Raindrops...Rainfall?) on the David Toop compilation 'Ocean of sound', Its incredible, some crazy arp synths just doing mad bleeps, whines and drones, some crazy wack-ass bass line and some heavily reverbed horn, it sounds like what mowax should of sounded like, and then the next track on the album is Analogue Bubblebath I, its a good CD.... also featuring king tubby, john hassel, terry riley, john cage, john zorn, eric satie...and the beach boys!..worthy odd purchase. I see Ocean of sound 3 is out too, mad electro compilation with like egyptian lover and Al-Naayfish (spelling?..) on.... im sorry im battered, have to go to bed now... k.F

quoted 21 lines I was just discussing music with my mom, and she, not knowing what i listen

> I was just discussing music with my mom, and she, not knowing what i listen > to, told me I should get into jazz(which I like, I'm just less interested at > this point in time). She started talkng about the whole improv thing, so I > defended "IDM" as a live form of music. However, she got me thinking--for > all this list's comparisons between idm and jazz, is there really a parallel? > Is there any equivalent improvisation, especially among more than one person > (after all, there are jazz sextets, etc., with 6 guys all playing off each > other). Even djs are forced to play the compositions of others--they're > limited by having an instrument not versatile in the way the sax is. What do > the best live IDmers do--are they really able to do original improv with the > tools they use? > On a related note, not meaning to offend anyone (I haven't heard his music), > why is there such a big Herbie Hancock love-in on this list? Here in NYC > he's advertised by the radio station that bills itself as "the smoothest > place on earth", also playing enny G and his ilk. My parents, both big into > jazz, just laugh when I mention hancock's name--my dad called him profoundly > uninteresting. Why that reaction from 2 openminded people? Are there people > on this list who dislike him, and those of you who like him--what innovations > did he make that older jazz musicians hadn't before him? > Thanks much > Sam

-- k.F But I use my super science and I twist all three I see sparks over that building They're shooting at me I dip, do a back flip Then hit em in the heart with sharp steel book marks Ignorance hates when I drop it But no matta what he do He can't stop the prophet....Jeru....

KaisrSolze@aol.com

quoted 11 lines I was just discussing music with my mom, and she, not knowing what i listen

> I was just discussing music with my mom, and she, not knowing what i listen > to, told me I should get into jazz(which I like, I'm just less interested at > this point in time). She started talkng about the whole improv thing, so I > defended "IDM" as a live form of music. However, she got me thinking--for > all this list's comparisons between idm and jazz, is there really a parallel? > Is there any equivalent improvisation, especially among more than one person > (after all, there are jazz sextets, etc., with 6 guys all playing off each > other). Even djs are forced to play the compositions of others--they're > limited by having an instrument not versatile in the way the sax is. What do > the best live IDmers do--are they really able to do original improv with the > tools they use?

Tom Jenkinson does live bass of course, but that's less IDM than traditional jazz improv. I've also seen several reviews of Atom Heart gigs where he seems to do a lot of live tweaking with one of those Akai sampler/drum-machines. In general I'd say that any IDM improvisation would have to be different from jazz improv in that everything needs to be quantized - this means that a live gig will be more "real-time arranging" (switching patterns and tweaking effects) rather than "real-time playing". Even if a particular group were to play an IDM tune totally live (without any sequencing) I don't think it would sound very good. Speaking of IDM/Jazz crossover, the "Hard Normal Daddy" LP has some amazing moments. My favorite being "Papalon", which has a beautiful and somewhat mournful melody. It's nice to hear some IDM with more developed melodic and harmonic themes - frequently the 'melody' in IDM is expressed in percussion or unusual sounds, but the more traditional song-like quality of some of the tunes on this record is refreshing. GD

At 15:59 10/05/97 -0400, you wrote:

quoted 2 lines On a related note, not meaning to offend anyone (I haven't heard his music),

> On a related note, not meaning to offend anyone (I haven't heard his music), >why is there such a big Herbie Hancock love-in on this list?

because he's pretty god-damned amazing i've only just started buying the lps myself, but anyone interested in listening to one of the undisputed godfathers of techno owe it to themselves to buy at least a couple of his lps - 'headhunters' and 'manchild' which are sublimely well-played records with synths you would kill for. the closest modern relative to herbie hancock would have to be kirk degiorgio aka as one, and global communication are heavily influenced by him too framing my 'feets don't fail me now' insert as i type cheerio! np - bu bu bu ba - mike and rich ~~~ Through universes of worlds of shadows, S G the subconscious geography remains constant. ~~~ Makyo 622AD

At 18:30 10/05/97 -0600, you wrote:

quoted 6 lines I personally think Herbie

>I personally think Herbie >didn't really contribute anything that "different" or "great" that other's >before him haven't done. >That's why you hear Hancock mixed in with Kenny (OH GOD NOT HIM AGAIN) G. >Herbie was first. Then came Kenny a decade later. Anyway, that's my 2 cents >worth.

you know, i don't support the death penalty, but i'm having a hard time after this.. well, maybe i'll let you off with a pelting of rotten veg. blasphemer cheerio! np - pulp fiction - alex reece ~~~ Through universes of worlds of shadows, S G the subconscious geography remains constant. ~~~ Makyo 622AD