IDM Mailing Archive

I was just discussing music with my mom, and she, not knowing what i listen to, told me I should get into jazz(which I like, I'm just less interested at this point in time). She started talkng about the whole improv thing, so I defended "IDM" as a live form of music. However, she got me thinking--for all this list's comparisons between idm and jazz, is there really a parallel? Is there any equivalent improvisation, especially among more than one person (after all, there are jazz sextets, etc., with 6 guys all playing off each other). Even djs are forced to play the compositions of others--they're limited by having an instrument not versatile in the way the sax is. What do the best live IDmers do--are they really able to do original improv with the tools they use? On a related note, not meaning to offend anyone (I haven't heard his music), why is there such a big Herbie Hancock love-in on this list? Here in NYC he's advertised by the radio station that bills itself as "the smoothest place on earth", also playing enny G and his ilk. My parents, both big into jazz, just laugh when I mention hancock's name--my dad called him profoundly uninteresting. Why that reaction from 2 openminded people? Are there people on this list who dislike him, and those of you who like him--what innovations did he make that older jazz musicians hadn't before him? Thanks much Sam

KaisrSolze@aol.com writes:

quoted 4 lines On a related note, not meaning to offend anyone (I haven't heard his music),

> On a related note, not meaning to offend anyone (I haven't heard his music), > why is there such a big Herbie Hancock love-in on this list? Here in NYC > he's advertised by the radio station that bills itself as "the smoothest > place on earth", also playing enny G and his ilk.

freaky. herbie used to be the man. he's done it all from traditional jazz to electronic experimentation. "secrets" is a super-funky album, frequently sampled by many. "future shock" is an electro classic. "headhunters" ... the list just goes on and on. the guy is a genius. the last album i heard from him is "this is the drum" which has a little bit of commercial cheese but also a lot of very nice programming and playing. i can't believe anyone would lump him in with kenny g. on now: "fifth element" soundtrack -- Jon Drukman jsd@gamespot.com SpotMedia Communications How the drunk and the maimed both are dragged forward out of the arena like a boneless Christ, one man under each arm, feet dragging, eyes on the aether. (David Foster Wallace/Infinite Jest)

KaisrSolze@aol.com wrote:

quoted 7 lines why is there such a big Herbie Hancock love-in on this list? Here in NYC

> why is there such a big Herbie Hancock love-in on this list? Here in NYC > he's advertised by the radio station that bills itself as "the smoothest > place on earth", also playing enny G and his ilk. My parents, both big into > jazz, just laugh when I mention hancock's name--my dad called him profoundly > uninteresting. Why that reaction from 2 openminded people? Are there people > on this list who dislike him, and those of you who like him--what innovations > did he make that older jazz musicians hadn't before him?

Herbie Hancock's music is greatly influenced by funk, a lot of jazz purists look down on this. Your parents might have a similar attitude about other "fusion" artists such as Weather Report, Stanley Clarke, George Duke and late Miles Davis. Hancock was innovative in several ways. He was an important part of Miles Davis' fusion bands, I guess that Hancock was one of the pioneers. The Warner Bros albums feature lush Gil Evans-inspired arrangements of Hancock's sextet drivin by slow funk grooves. The recordings that span the Warner Bros years from 70-72 are a prophecy of ambient groove by the likes of Orb, FSOL, etc. but to my ears Hancock is more complex, more organic and more real. The use of electronics during this period is very sudtle and very effective in creating an atmosphere. Perhaps more similar to Jon Hassel's fourth world compositions than the cut and paste stylings of Orb and Company. In '72, Patrick Gleason played Moog on Hancock's Crossings. I am not sure but this might be the first Moog on a jazz record. The culmination of Hancock's recording experience during the warner years become the sketchbook of the milestone funk/jazz album Head Hunters. More funk and more electronic than jazz had ever been, most jazz critics love to hate this album. Thrust is supposed to be the same kind of thing but I have not heard it (Thrust is out of print in the US). Man-Child from '75 is like Hancock rolled his funk grooves from Headhunters backwards into the ambience of the Warner recordings. A stoned earthy-electro groove. Sunlight, from '78, features a Sennheiser vocoder throughout and states as much on the back sleeve of the album (another first in jazz?). The use of the vocoder is subtle and unique. The years following Sunlight were not good years. Too much pop, too many bad lyrics. Last year, I bought an expensive Japanese pressing of Monster (out of print in US) because it featured a cartoon illustration of a Moog on the cover. Bad mistake. Monster is a bad attempt at a disco funk album and is loaded with embarrasing lyrics. Hancock's biggest contribution to electronica might be the '83 album, Futureshock. It features the electro track Rockit, which was probably responsible for "breaking" ;) electro into popular culture. Futureshock features Grandmixer DST, Bill Laswell and others from Laswell's Celluloid label of the time. This album was a brilliant pioneering recording. Put simply, it is an electro-funk album produced with a big budget and arranged by a jazz musician who had more than a decade of innovations behind him. And it was true to electro, nothing like the recent attempt of jazz musicians to cash in on hip hop and acid jazz. I was 14 when the album was released and I remember listening to it all summer long on my Walkman. I knew very nothing about Hancock but I was totally into electro and I can still remember the feeling of awestruck amazement that I got from that album. Listening to Futureshock today, with more critical ears, tracks like Futureshock have a hint of the bad years of Hancock's disco phase. But overall, the album is a milestone. The machines used were Fairlight, Emulator, Vocoder, Mini-Moog, Prophet-5, Pro-1, DMX, Synare, turntables and more. Perfect Machine and the following album attempted to re-create Futureshock but fell short. They were good albums but just not as good. I am afraid to hear the more recent stuff. But, remember that the current recordings might be watered down but they come from someone who has been an innovator for more than two decades, maybe he desereves to slow down. I didn't mean to turn this into a thesis, I hope that it is interesting or informative to a few. Maybe next week we can discuss the Art Of Noise. BTW, anyone know what signal proccessors were used during the Warner Bros recordings?