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Re: (idm) RE: Copyright infringement

3 messages · 3 participants · spans 1 day · search this subject
1997-05-07 17:21*molly* (idm) RE: Copyright infringement
1997-05-07 18:32Frank Deutschmann Re: (idm) RE: Copyright infringement
1997-05-07 22:01Adam J Weitzman Re: (idm) RE: Copyright infringement
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1997-05-07 17:21*molly*Chris Fahey <chris@wanderlust.com> wrote: >But as any copyright lawyer will tell you, its
From:
*molly*
To:
Date:
Wed, 07 May 1997 13:21:44 EDT
Subject:
(idm) RE: Copyright infringement
permalink · <9705071721.AA03548@entropy.MIT.EDU>
Chris Fahey <chris@wanderlust.com> wrote:
quoted 2 lines But as any copyright lawyer will tell you, its the>But as any copyright lawyer will tell you, its the >*contents* which are copyrighted, not the medium.
Wow...someone should let Compuserve know. If this is actually true, then how is it that Compuserve can collect royalties for using the .gif image format? That seems like medium and not content to me. *molly*
1997-05-07 18:32Frank DeutschmannOn May 7, 1:21pm, *molly* wrote: > Chris Fahey <chris@wanderlust.com> wrote: > >But as any
From:
Frank Deutschmann
To:
*molly* ,
Date:
Wed, 7 May 1997 14:32:46 -0400
Subject:
Re: (idm) RE: Copyright infringement
permalink · <970507143247.ZM14551@dev41.bfm.com>
On May 7, 1:21pm, *molly* wrote:
quoted 3 lines Chris Fahey <chris@wanderlust.com> wrote:> Chris Fahey <chris@wanderlust.com> wrote: > >But as any copyright lawyer will tell you, its the > >*contents* which are copyrighted, not the medium.
quoted 3 lines Wow...someone should let Compuserve know. If this is actually true,> Wow...someone should let Compuserve know. If this is actually true, > then how is it that Compuserve can collect royalties for using the > .gif image format? That seems like medium and not content to me.
First, I'm not a lawyer, but I've had to deal extensively with compyright issues and copyright lawyers (mostly in the context of computer software). Also, what follows should in no way be construed as legal advice!!! Anyway, the GIF file format is a totally seperate issue; the issue there is a patent licensing issue for the technology (specifically: compression and storage of images). Although patents are similar to copyrights (they're both intellectual property), they are in some ways very different. As far as duplicating copyright-protected works, a "plain english" interpretation of the law (which Adam Weitzman already provided) is that you are basicly free to duplicate protected works for your own non-comercial use -- backups, use in your car, singing in the shower, tunes for your kids' birthday parties, etc. However, once you get into distribution and/or public performance, you are in commercial territory, regardless whether you charge a fee for your service, regardless if you turn a profit, and also regardless of whether you are an organized business or not. So, giving away 10,000 copies of _Thriller_ or giving one copy to a friend both constitute copyright violation (the only difference is scale); keeping a spare copy of _Thriller_ in your safe deposit box, OTOH, would not. The reason for this is that in both cases there is an asset transfer involved -- you are transferring real property (intellectual counts as real) from one person/entity to another. In the personal use (backup) case, there is no property transfer, and thus no possible commercial interest. (Note dying might be one way to distribute copyright-protected work without infringing: if you made 10,000 copies of _Thriller_, bequeathed each to a different person, then died, your heirs would get a free copy of _Thriller_, though they might owe probate tax on it....) -frank
1997-05-07 22:01Adam J WeitzmanI think it is prudent to state at this point that one of the purposes of the AHRA was to m
From:
Adam J Weitzman
To:
IDM Mailing List
Date:
Wed, 07 May 1997 18:01:57 -0400
Subject:
Re: (idm) RE: Copyright infringement
permalink · <3370FBD5.EA8CD308@individual.com>
I think it is prudent to state at this point that one of the purposes of the AHRA was to make it possible for musicians, publishers, and the like, to recover money based on the assumption that consumers would use these new technologies to make recordings in a noncommercial way, and that "interested copyright holders" would therefore have a financial benefit in these technologies being available. In return, the consumer was freed from liability for the infringement. Otherwise, there would have been no need for this Act at all. Frank Deutschmann wrote:
quoted 12 lines As far as duplicating copyright-protected works, a "plain english"> As far as duplicating copyright-protected works, a "plain english" > interpretation of the law (which Adam Weitzman already provided) is that you > are basicly free to duplicate protected works for your own non-comercial use -- > backups, use in your car, singing in the shower, tunes for your kids' birthday > parties, etc. However, once you get into distribution and/or public > performance, you are in commercial territory, regardless whether you charge a > fee for your service, regardless if you turn a profit, and also regardless of > whether you are an organized business or not. > > So, giving away 10,000 copies of _Thriller_ or giving one copy to a friend both > constitute copyright violation (the only difference is scale); keeping a spare > copy of _Thriller_ in your safe deposit box, OTOH, would not.
Every interpretation of this Act that I have read (about 10 so far) contradicts your assessment here. Prior to this act, one was already allowed to make copies of recordings for one's own use; there would have been no need to reiterate it here, and there would have been no need to use the term "noncommercial" over the term "personal" (which is not used anywhere in the text of the Act). All of the interpretations of this Act that I have read have stated that you can make copies of recordings and give them to friends, and that this constitutes "noncommercial use by a consumer."
quoted 4 lines The reason for> The reason for > this is that in both cases there is an asset transfer involved -- you are > transferring real property (intellectual counts as real) from one person/entity > to another.
I'm missing what relevance this has in this context. This is not a matter of intellectual property; the taper is not claiming that the work is their own, presumably. Chris Fahey <chris@wanderlust.com> wrote:
quoted 3 lines I see. But if I made a recording and you recorded it and used it on mix> I see. But if I made a recording and you recorded it and used it on mix > tapes, could I sue you for copyright infringement? If not, where do I > get my royalties?
You mean if I copy it onto a tape and give it to a friend of mine? No, you can't sue me for copyright infringement based on that. You get your royalties from the pool of money that is collected through the sale of digital recording devices and media.
quoted 1 line [nitpicking about the phrase "based on the use of media" deleted]> [nitpicking about the phrase "based on the use of media" deleted]
That's not what the Act is for; if that's the case, it would have been totally redundant, unnecessary legislation.
quoted 3 lines What if I only wanted a certain number of select people to even hear my> What if I only wanted a certain number of select people to even hear my > copyrighted material? If you copy it, you are subverting my wishes for > my property.
As far as I know, you are never protected from this by existing law. Once you distribute the work, the distributee has rights with regards to that work as well (I can play it at home while my wife is in the room, for instance). The only way you could enforce this is by yourself. You can either (a) make one copy of the work, invite x number of people to listen to it, and then destroy the work, or (b) require that I sign a contract waiving my right to play it while someone else is in earshot, and frankly, I don't know how enforceable such a contract is. This post will constitute my last public contribution on this topic in 1997. See you next year!! :-) -- Adam J Weitzman "What is is, Individual, Inc. What is not is possible." weitzman@individual.com - Einstuerzende http://www.individual.com Neubauten