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Re: (idm) dub? real dub?

14 messages · 11 participants · spans 1 day · search this subject
◇ merged from 2 subjects: (idm) dub, a machine-based genre · (idm) dub? real dub?
1997-04-09 05:56Ian McCausland (idm) dub? real dub?
├─ 1997-04-09 06:47Brett McCormick Re: (idm) dub? real dub?
├─ 1997-04-09 15:36khannan suntharam Re: (idm) dub? real dub?
└─ 1997-04-09 17:41Brian & Sharon Beuchaw Re: (idm) dub? real dub?
1997-04-09 07:28Gonzi (Fresh) Re: (idm) dub? real dub?
└─ 1997-04-10 04:13for.next (idm) Dub, a machine-based genre
1997-04-09 08:51Re: (idm) dub? real dub?
└─ 1997-04-10 04:18for.next Re: (idm) dub? real dub?
1997-04-09 17:55thomas m weibrecht Re: (idm) dub? real dub?
1997-04-09 18:02Ninja Tune/Discreet Re: (idm) dub? real dub?
1997-04-09 21:44Ninja Tune/Discreet Re: (idm) dub? real dub?
1997-04-09 22:53Otto Koppius Re: (idm) dub? real dub?
└─ 1997-04-09 15:56khannan suntharam Re: (idm) dub? real dub?
1997-04-10 02:06Styrolene vaT Re: (idm) dub? real dub?
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1997-04-09 05:56Ian McCauslandanyoen recomend some real dub?... I have the Macro Dub vol 2... but I want more "real" stu
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Ian McCausland
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09 Apr 1997 05:56:00 GMT
Subject:
(idm) dub? real dub?
permalink · <239140862.47093098@mit.bison.mb.ca>
anyoen recomend some real dub?... I have the Macro Dub vol 2... but I want more "real" stuff.. I have one disc by Mad Prof.. "its a Mad mad mad Mad Prof".. and its very good..... some wild effects.. I can see the influence this stuff has had on ORb among others.. anyways.. anything thats as groovin and electro would be great.... ian in winnipeg
1997-04-09 06:47Brett McCormickWell, one of my roommates has 'dubmission', which (From the little i've heard) seems very
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Brett McCormick
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Tue, 8 Apr 1997 23:47:43 -0700 (PDT)
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Re: (idm) dub? real dub?
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(idm) dub? real dub?
permalink · <199704090647.XAA21251@speedy.speakeasy.org>
Well, one of my roommates has 'dubmission', which (From the little i've heard) seems very "dubby". Not sure if it's real or not, though. From what I heard, it sounded pretty OK. I'll take a listen and let ya know how it is. And, of course, there is Planet Dub, which may not neccesarily be real dub, but I like it. wondering what real dub is.... --brett On , 9 April 1997, at 05:56:00, Ian McCausland wrote:
quoted 6 lines anyoen recomend some real dub?... I have the Macro Dub vol 2... but I want> anyoen recomend some real dub?... I have the Macro Dub vol 2... but I want > more "real" stuff.. I have one disc by Mad Prof.. "its a Mad mad mad Mad > Prof".. and its very good..... some wild effects.. I can see the influence > this stuff has had on ORb among others.. anyways.. anything thats as groovin > and electro would be great.... > ian in winnipeg
1997-04-09 15:36khannan suntharamOn 9 Apr 1997, Ian McCausland wrote: > anyoen recomend some real dub?... I have the Macro
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khannan suntharam
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Ian McCausland
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Wed, 9 Apr 1997 10:36:27 -0500 (CDT)
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Re: (idm) dub? real dub?
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(idm) dub? real dub?
permalink · <Pine.OSF.3.95q.970409103446.18218C-100000@Bayou.UH.EDU>
On 9 Apr 1997, Ian McCausland wrote:
quoted 6 lines anyoen recomend some real dub?... I have the Macro Dub vol 2... but I want> anyoen recomend some real dub?... I have the Macro Dub vol 2... but I want > more "real" stuff.. I have one disc by Mad Prof.. "its a Mad mad mad Mad > Prof".. and its very good..... some wild effects.. I can see the influence > this stuff has had on ORb among others.. anyways.. anything thats as groovin > and electro would be great.... > ian in winnipeg
Try the following which was produced by Bill Laswell..it's called "Sacred Sound System: Book of Entrance Chapter 1" or something like that. In any event, it's damn good dub. Oh, and its got the word "dub" on the cover. khannan suntharam kxs28972@bayou.uh.edu
1997-04-09 17:41Brian & Sharon BeuchawOn 9 Apr 1997, Ian McCausland wrote: > anyoen recomend some real dub?... I have the Macro
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Brian & Sharon Beuchaw
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Wed, 9 Apr 1997 12:41:27 -0500 (CDT)
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Re: (idm) dub? real dub?
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(idm) dub? real dub?
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On 9 Apr 1997, Ian McCausland wrote:
quoted 2 lines anyoen recomend some real dub?... I have the Macro Dub vol 2... but I want> anyoen recomend some real dub?... I have the Macro Dub vol 2... but I want > more "real" stuff.. ...
For more "traditional" dub, check out Lee Perry/Upsetters (_Some Of The Best_ on Heartbeat, _Open The Gate_ and _The Upsetter Collection_ on Trojan, _Voodooism_ on Pressure Sounds (a subsidiary of On-U Sound), and there's tons of other Lee Perry/Upsetters stuff out there), King Tubby (_Dub Gone Crazy_ and others on Blood & Fire, & a good 2CD set on Trojan, but I can't remember the name), Scientist (many labels, including Blood & Fire), Sly & Robbie's _Reggae Greats_ and Black Uhuru's _Dub Factor_ (both on Island), Dub Syndicate on On-U Sound, Prince Far I, and I'm sure there's lots of others I'm leaving out. Check out the rec.music.reggae FAQ (can't remember where it is, but Yahoo or Lycos or another search engine will know) - it's got a big section on dub. Hope this helps.... cya brian
1997-04-09 07:28Gonzi (Fresh)This is from alt.culture: dub Afro-Caribbean psychedelic music of sound subtraction. In du
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Gonzi (Fresh)
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Wed, 09 Apr 1997 00:28:55 -0700
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Re: (idm) dub? real dub?
permalink · <334B4537.6B12@linkonline.net>
This is from alt.culture: dub Afro-Caribbean psychedelic music of sound subtraction. In dub, the producer becomes the center of the Jamaican reggae experience, shining an aural X-ray onto the sound to illuminate the bass and drums at its skeletal framework; vocals are sparse, other instruments drop in and out dramatically, and sound effects are added seemingly at random. By 1970, Lee "Scratch" Perry, Joe Gibbs, Bunny Lee and other producers' dub "versions" were staples of Jamaican single B-sides; King Tubby came next, raising further the level of technical sophistication. Today Adrian Sherwood, the Mad Professor, and Jah Shaka, are dub's chief practitioners, while the music's production tricks have become staples of house, techno, and ambient recordings. But it's really more complicated than all that. You might want to check this out: http://www.seacoast.com/~c/dub.htm Basically, you probably want to start with people like Lee Perry, King Tubby, and Mad Professor and work from there as these are the originators of the sound. There is an excellent profile of Lee Perry in Grand Royal magazine #2 as well as a ridiculously extensive overview of his work. happy hunting, _____ / ,-,_) /,_) (/ RESH Live & Direct from the G-Spot, Orange County, California, USA http://www1.linkonline.net/fresh/fresh.htm
1997-04-10 04:13for.nextTo PARAPHRASE my memory of _Cut n' Mix"_, a excellent book about the history of post-r-n-b
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for.next
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Wed, 9 Apr 1997 21:13:39 -0700 (PDT)
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(idm) Dub, a machine-based genre
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Re: (idm) dub? real dub?
permalink · <Pine.SUN.3.95.970409204051.10051E-100000@thetics.europa.com>
To PARAPHRASE my memory of _Cut n' Mix"_, a excellent book about the history of post-r-n-b soul music (touching on the history of scratching/rap and the history of Jamaican pop music from Sam Cooke influences to Alpha Blondy): Dub was birthed from the studio mixes of 'Rocksteady', a late-60's bass-heavy reggae popular for street dancing. Around the young music/dance scene, there was a competition between different folks' "sound systems" (kind of like in people's cars "rap-mobiles" in the US suburbs right now) about how loud they could be and, specifically, how many people they could get dancing at their street parties. (This book shows pictures of some sound systems, which could roll around on casters and were pretty homebuilt-looking. To get the beat of the music to travel further through the crowds, everyone gradually started turning their sound-systems' bass up and up This gradually influenced how the music was recorded/composed (like 808 bassdrums in rap in the US in the 80-90's). Rocksteady stood out from previous forms of reggae in that the beat was slowed down from the dancehall style and the bass was cranked up to the foreground. (I think the book talks about the popularity of pot in the late 60's crossed with rocksteady leading to the appreciation of the trippy mixes of folks like Lee Perry and Linval Thompson, Joe Gibbs, etc who did the mixing of efx and echoes for instrumental tracks/backing for the MC's that sung over the music (part of how the roots of dancehall/ska got started). Dub was born out of the instrumental remixes/b-sides of the 'straight' songs from this time. Eventually, the remix engineers got acknowledged as the "scientists" who mastered these mixing skills. If you buy both dub and reggae from the 70's, you can figure out who engineered which straight tracks by recognizing the beats, horns, bits of vocals, etc in the dub tracks (usually not just named after the original track). The key devices in making dub are the multitrack mixer/tape (mixdown setup) with space echoes on the auxilliary efx channels, so you can grab any sound in any channel of the mix and toss it into the space echo..cho..ho ho ho ho HO HO HOhhOhhOOHHOHH <- like that, where it feeds back! There were studios like Black Ark, Studio One, (can't recall more right now) that became the hubs (because of their mixer-consoles, revoxes, space echos and other post-production gear) through which those into dub attained status and skills in the studio. This could be compared to techno; where programming skills directly relate to your inclination to tweak machines on-the-fly and get the sound you spontaneously imagine. _Cut n' Mix_ covers Grandmaster Flash a little as well! According to the book, he had a degree in electronics and started street mixing by tapping the power from the neighborhood streetlights to run the sound system/turntables? There are a few good interviews in this book... - Solenoid On Wed, 9 Apr 1997, Gonzi (Fresh) wrote:
quoted 41 lines This is from alt.culture:> This is from alt.culture: > > dub > Afro-Caribbean psychedelic music of sound subtraction. In dub, > the > producer becomes the center of the Jamaican reggae experience, > shining an aural X-ray onto the sound to illuminate the bass and > drums at its skeletal framework; vocals are sparse, other > instruments > drop in and out dramatically, and sound effects are added > seemingly > at random. By 1970, Lee "Scratch" Perry, Joe Gibbs, Bunny Lee > and other producers' dub "versions" were staples of Jamaican > single > B-sides; King Tubby came next, raising further the level of > technical > sophistication. Today Adrian Sherwood, the Mad Professor, and > Jah Shaka, are dub's chief practitioners, while the music's > production tricks have become staples of house, techno, and > ambient recordings. > > But it's really more complicated than all that. You might want to check > this out: > > http://www.seacoast.com/~c/dub.htm > > Basically, you probably want to start with people like Lee Perry, King > Tubby, and Mad Professor and work from there as these are the > originators of the sound. There is an excellent profile of Lee Perry in > Grand Royal magazine #2 as well as a ridiculously extensive overview of > his work. > > happy hunting, > _____ > / ,-,_) > /,_) > (/ RESH > Live & Direct from the G-Spot, > Orange County, California, USA > http://www1.linkonline.net/fresh/fresh.htm >
solenoid@europa.com <------+
1997-04-09 08:51hectork@kben.co.ukThree albums you NEED for your new dub collection : SCIENTIST : Scientist Rids the World o
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Wed, 9 Apr 1997 8:51:49 +0000
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Re: (idm) dub? real dub?
permalink · <199704090746.HAA07452@osiris.kben.co.uk>
Three albums you NEED for your new dub collection : SCIENTIST : Scientist Rids the World of the Evil Curse of the Vampires [or something like that] LEE PERRY : Blood Vapour DR ALIMANTADO : King's Bread Dub Building a dub collection is a never-ending task. There's TONS of good stuff out there.
1997-04-10 04:18for.nextMy faves: SCIENTIST: Scientific Dub (12" collection from '77) TWINKLE BROS: Dub Massacre V
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for.next
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Wed, 9 Apr 1997 21:18:05 -0700 (PDT)
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Re: (idm) dub? real dub?
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Re: (idm) dub? real dub?
permalink · <Pine.SUN.3.95.970409211445.10051F-100000@thetics.europa.com>
My faves: SCIENTIST: Scientific Dub (12" collection from '77) TWINKLE BROS: Dub Massacre Vol 2 (lots of electronic bits, '84?) (early Mad Professor engineering) DR. ALIMANTADO: Best Dressed Chicken In Town (entertaining as hell, various dub studios, reviewed in XLR8R recently ...!) solenoid@europa.com <------+
1997-04-09 17:55thomas m weibrechtaugustus pablo, black uhuru, sly & robbie, king tubby, lee "scratch" perry, burning spear,
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thomas m weibrecht
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Wed, 09 Apr 1997 13:55:00 EDT
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Re: (idm) dub? real dub?
permalink · <19970409.134652.16415.4.TWeibrecht@juno.com>
augustus pablo, black uhuru, sly & robbie, king tubby, lee "scratch" perry, burning spear, anything on on-u-sound...among many others....tom w On 09 Apr 1997 05:56:00 GMT Ian_McCausland@mit.bison.mb.ca (Ian McCausland) writes:
quoted 11 lines anyoen recomend some real dub?... I have the Macro Dub vol 2... but I>anyoen recomend some real dub?... I have the Macro Dub vol 2... but I >want >more "real" stuff.. I have one disc by Mad Prof.. "its a Mad mad mad >Mad >Prof".. and its very good..... some wild effects.. I can see the >influence >this stuff has had on ORb among others.. anyways.. anything thats as >groovin >and electro would be great.... >ian in winnipeg >
1997-04-09 18:02Ninja Tune/Discreet>On 9 Apr 1997, Ian McCausland wrote: > >> anyoen recomend some real dub?... I have the Ma
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Ninja Tune/Discreet
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Date:
Wed, 9 Apr 1997 14:02:05 -0400
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Re: (idm) dub? real dub?
permalink · <v01530500af71869223a7@[205.205.118.44]>
quoted 8 lines On 9 Apr 1997, Ian McCausland wrote:>On 9 Apr 1997, Ian McCausland wrote: > >> anyoen recomend some real dub?... I have the Macro Dub vol 2... but I want >> more "real" stuff.. I have one disc by Mad Prof.. "its a Mad mad mad Mad >> Prof".. and its very good..... some wild effects.. I can see the influence >> this stuff has had on ORb among others.. anyways.. anything thats as groovin >> and electro would be great.... >> ian in winnipeg
First off... anything on Blood and Fire. Hands down the best dub re-issue label. Then... Dr.Alimantado Jah Stich King Tubby Lee Perry Horace Andy Mad Professor Augustus Pablo Dub Syndicate African Head Charge Singers and Players Creation Rebel Tappa Zukie Alpha and Omega Big Youth Burning Spear Congos Coxsone Dodd Jah Shaka Kieth Hudson Chin Loy LKJ U-Roy Jacob Miller Niney the Observer Prince Far I Roots Radic Scientist Upsetters not all of these artists releases were specifically 'dub' but a good portion of them were. and oh so many more... I agree with the person who proped up Scientist "Rids The World of The Evil Curse of the Vampire". It is possibly the best 'dub' record. There are some good collections on Island. Ariwa, Greensleeves, On U Sound, and Trojan have a lot of good stuff that isn't to hard to track down. Beware of sketchy dub re-issues. There are many. Good luck on the vinyl. I've managed to track down about 250 older titles in the last couple years and that helps explain my general lack of cash. Jeff
1997-04-09 21:44Ninja Tune/Discreet>> First off... anything on Blood and Fire. Hands down the best dub >>re-issue label. > >h
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Ninja Tune/Discreet
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Wed, 9 Apr 1997 17:44:26 -0400
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Re: (idm) dub? real dub?
permalink · <v01530500af71bba4772c@[205.205.119.166]>
quoted 15 lines First off... anything on Blood and Fire. Hands down the best dub>> First off... anything on Blood and Fire. Hands down the best dub >>re-issue label. > >hmm im not so convinced myself, ive found the reissues a bit patchy >and dont do anything to break the stereotype of Dub. >I bought two King Tubby albums on blood and fire, KT and Soul >Syndicate which is pretty good, and KT and King Jammy dub gone >2 crazy which holds little of value compared to other KT stuff. >The Scientist and Lee perry releases were also similar > >Try: >King Tubby Special Request 7*-7* (cant remember the dates) >King Tubby : The album containing the track 'dub fi gwan' > (also on the ocean of sound compilation) >Scientist versus the Space Invaders (incredible!)
Got them all and yes they are good. The point I was trying to make about Blood and Fire is that in a genre full of sketchy re-issues Blood and Fire take the time to dig up rare classics and present them with good packaging and extensive liner notes to help out people who may not be aware of the history of 'dub' music. They have also covered all elements from the dub (King Tubby, Scientist, etc.. releases) to the DJ/Vocal ('If DJ Was Your Trade' CD, Horace Andy's 'In the Light', Burning Spears 'Social Living'). You would be hard pressed to find a more knowagable source than the man behind the label, Steve Barrow. The guys house has a room with thousands of Reggae/Dub/Ska LP, CDs, and 7"s and he can tell stories all day about Jamaican greats. For someone just getting into this music it is a perfect place to start (especially there budget priced 'Heavyweight Sound' series). Jeff
1997-04-09 22:53Otto KoppiusOn Wed, 9 Apr 1997 10:36:27 -0500 (CDT), khannan suntharam <kxs28972@Bayou.UH.EDU> wrote:
From:
Otto Koppius
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Wed, 9 Apr 97 16:53:48 CST
Subject:
Re: (idm) dub? real dub?
permalink · <72042.s9008624@mail.student.utwente.nl>
On Wed, 9 Apr 1997 10:36:27 -0500 (CDT), khannan suntharam <kxs28972@Bayou.UH.EDU> wrote:
quoted 3 lines Try the following which was produced by Bill Laswell..it's called "Sacred>Try the following which was produced by Bill Laswell..it's called "Sacred >Sound System: Book of Entrance Chapter 1" or something like that. In any >event, it's damn good dub. Oh, and its got the word "dub" on the cover.
In large friendly letters? :) Otto ObIDM: I just got the reissued Reload CD 'A collection of short stories' thru ModernMusic and it's excellent. What makes it even better is that a lot of thought has gone into the text in the booklet, which is sadly rather rare these days...
1997-04-09 15:56khannan suntharamOn Wed, 9 Apr 1997, Otto Koppius wrote: > >Try the following which was produced by Bill La
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khannan suntharam
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Otto Koppius
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Wed, 9 Apr 1997 10:56:24 -0500 (CDT)
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Re: (idm) dub? real dub?
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Re: (idm) dub? real dub?
permalink · <Pine.OSF.3.95q.970409105502.18218F-100000@Bayou.UH.EDU>
On Wed, 9 Apr 1997, Otto Koppius wrote:
quoted 5 lines Try the following which was produced by Bill Laswell..it's called "Sacred> >Try the following which was produced by Bill Laswell..it's called "Sacred > >Sound System: Book of Entrance Chapter 1" or something like that. In any > >event, it's damn good dub. Oh, and its got the word "dub" on the cover. > > In large friendly letters? :)
Uhm..not really - the lettering is right underneath the picture of a skull. khannan suntharam kxs28972@bayou.uh.edu
1997-04-10 02:06Styrolene vaT> First off... anything on Blood and Fire. Hands down the best dub re-issue label. hmm im
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Styrolene vaT
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Wed, 09 Apr 1997 19:06:10 -0700
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Re: (idm) dub? real dub?
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quoted 1 line First off... anything on Blood and Fire. Hands down the best dub re-issue label.> First off... anything on Blood and Fire. Hands down the best dub re-issue label.
hmm im not so convinced myself, ive found the reissues a bit patchy and dont do anything to break the stereotype of Dub. I bought two King Tubby albums on blood and fire, KT and Soul Syndicate which is pretty good, and KT and King Jammy dub gone 2 crazy which holds little of value compared to other KT stuff. The Scientist and Lee perry releases were also similar Try: King Tubby Special Request 7*-7* (cant remember the dates) King Tubby : The album containing the track 'dub fi gwan' (also on the ocean of sound compilation) Scientist versus the Space Invaders (incredible!) kF