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Re: (idm) Black music / White music

8 messages · 6 participants · spans 1 day · search this subject
2000-02-22 17:39Manuel Odendahl (idm) Black music / White music
2000-02-22 18:31zachary Re: (idm) Black music / White music
2000-02-22 20:30Kelley Hackett RE: (idm) Black music / White music
2000-02-23 12:11drift wood Re: (idm) Black music / White music
2000-02-23 12:21_ (idm) Black music / White music
2000-02-23 13:07Kelley Hackett RE: (idm) Black music / White music
2000-02-23 19:50Re: (idm) Black music / White music
2000-02-23 20:29Kelley Hackett RE: (idm) Black music / White music
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2000-02-22 17:39Manuel OdendahlWell, i just read an article in a french "culture" magazine called l'evenement du jeudi, t
From:
Manuel Odendahl
To:
Date:
Tue, 22 Feb 2000 18:39:14 +0100
Subject:
(idm) Black music / White music
permalink · <20000222183914.A5093@e503.hadiko.de>
Well, i just read an article in a french "culture" magazine called l'evenement du jeudi, they were talkin about the french scene in techno, you know manu le malin, daft punk etc... french touch. Well they were wondering why these young quite rich white people were making such music, whereas black people who invented it should play it. This remembers me of the recent Moby article thread on this mailing list. I'm just wondering why people are still thin- king in terms of white music / black music. Can you really say of a music kind it is black because it is mostly played by black artists ? It has much more to do with social factors, a musician is going to play black music because he lives in a milieu where this music is played and he lives in such a milieu cbecause he is black. But white people living in the same conditions are going to make music that is as black as the music those black people play (just listen to white hiphop artists here in france). I'm also wondering why people get upset about those white music stealers. Does it really matter if they are white ? They're music stealers that's all, just don't listen to them. ANd it seems to me that nowadays there are as much black music stealers as white ones (no i'm not thinking about puff daddy and co.). Well just wanted to hear you people's opinion about this Manuel Odendahl --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
2000-02-22 18:31zacharyunfortunately, racism is here to stay. i don't think it's a question of white appropriatio
From:
zachary
To:
,
Date:
Tue, 22 Feb 2000 13:31:52 -0500
Subject:
Re: (idm) Black music / White music
permalink · <v02140b01b4d884790462@[128.122.93.168]>
unfortunately, racism is here to stay. i don't think it's a question of white appropriation any longer due to the fact that these genre-related boundaries have dissolved so much since some of the first acts of theft on [white people's] parts (i.e., jazz)... YET, the funniest thing about it is, jazz itself was a fusion of the african rhythmic and improvisational sense *with* european tonalities. off the bat, i don't think someone could say jazz is purely black music- it's african-american music to be sure, but why not just american? there were and are a lot of talented white players- for instance, look at miles davis' "birth of the cool" roster: those guys were ALL WHITE, and that was in the late forties (we hadn't even gotten to mclaughlin, corea, scofield, etc. yet!) with blues, rock, hip-hop, techno, house, whatever else, it's the same fucking issue and you know what? FUCK IT. zachary zim200is7.nyu.edu --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
2000-02-22 20:30Kelley HackettYour only comment of TRUE Merit.....(wisdom) >Does it really matter if they are white ? Th
From:
Kelley Hackett
To:
,
Date:
Tue, 22 Feb 2000 15:30:54 -0500
Subject:
RE: (idm) Black music / White music
permalink · <397CA68ABF5AD111863C00805F0DDE980C4AB8@aba.iupui.edu>
Your only comment of TRUE Merit.....(wisdom)
quoted 1 line Does it really matter if they are white ? They're music >stealers that's>Does it really matter if they are white ? They're music >stealers that's
all,
quoted 1 line just don't listen to them.>just don't listen to them.
But Im not going for this trap....ha ha....forward with all this MUSIC....Incidentally, man you guys better listen to Silver Surfer by Lars Behrenroth......Fuuuuug.. Its oh-so Tight! Hk! np) What I just mentioned p.s. as for Zim200 remarks, ahhhhh your kidd'n Me! -----Original Message----- From: Manuel Odendahl [mailto:blupingu@e503.hadiko.de] Sent: Tuesday, February 22, 2000 12:39 PM To: idm@hyperreal.org Subject: (idm) Black music / White music Well, i just read an article in a french "culture" magazine called l'evenement du jeudi, they were talkin about the french scene in techno, you know manu le malin, daft punk etc... french touch. Well they were wondering why these young quite rich white people were making such music, whereas black people who invented it should play it. This remembers me of the recent Moby article thread on this mailing list. I'm just wondering why people are still thin- king in terms of white music / black music. Can you really say of a music kind it is black because it is mostly played by black artists ? It has much more to do with social factors, a musician is going to play black music because he lives in a milieu where this music is played and he lives in such a milieu cbecause he is black. But white people living in the same conditions are going to make music that is as black as the music those black people play (just listen to white hiphop artists here in france). I'm also wondering why people get upset about those white music stealers. Does it really matter if they are white ? They're music stealers that's all, just don't listen to them. ANd it seems to me that nowadays there are as much black music stealers as white ones (no i'm not thinking about puff daddy and co.). Well just wanted to hear you people's opinion about this Manuel Odendahl --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
2000-02-23 12:11drift woodThe facts are that record companies, critics and the white record buying public have const
From:
drift wood
To:
Date:
Wed, 23 Feb 2000 12:11:46 +0000 (GMT)
Subject:
Re: (idm) Black music / White music
permalink · <20000223121146.20443.qmail@web1105.mail.yahoo.com>
The facts are that record companies, critics and the white record buying public have constantly discriminated against music performed by Black Artists. Why is it that the NME granted only a few paragraphs to review Marvin Gaye's What's Going On in 1972? Because white journalists at that time looked down on dance music. Why was it that Cilla Black's inferior versions of Dionne Warwick songs were far bigger hits than the originals? Because the Record Companies believed that a White Singer was more acceptable to record buyers than a black singer. I know that it's extremely simplistic to split dance music into Black/White because it's rarely like that in practice, you only have to look at the members of the Stax house band, Booker & the MG's, to see that, and of course Burt Bacharach, Dionne Warwick's producer/songwriter is another example. Basically, the European Classical Music tradition has always looked down upon music of other ethnic origins, believing itself somehow intellectually superior. This attitude still appears from time to time, even on this list. Matt. --- zachary <zim200@is7.nyu.edu> wrote:
quoted 37 lines unfortunately, racism is here to stay.> unfortunately, racism is here to stay. > > i don't think it's a question of white appropriation any longer due > to the > fact that these genre-related boundaries have dissolved so much since > some > of the first acts of theft on [white people's] parts (i.e., jazz)... > YET, > the funniest thing about it is, jazz itself was a fusion of the > african > rhythmic and improvisational sense *with* european tonalities. off > the bat, > i don't think someone could say jazz is purely black music- it's > african-american music to be sure, but why not just american? there > were > and are a lot of talented white players- for instance, look at miles > davis' > "birth of the cool" roster: those guys were ALL WHITE, and that was > in the > late forties (we hadn't even gotten to mclaughlin, corea, scofield, > etc. > yet!) > > with blues, rock, hip-hop, techno, house, whatever else, it's the > same > fucking issue and you know what? FUCK IT. > > zachary > zim200is7.nyu.edu > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org > For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org > >
____________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.co.uk address at http://mail.yahoo.co.uk or your free @yahoo.ie address at http://mail.yahoo.ie --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
2000-02-23 12:21_Written by Manuel Odendahl <blupingu@e503.hadiko.de> Subject: Black music / White music >I
From:
_
To:
Date:
Wed, 23 Feb 2000 12:21:59 -0000
Subject:
(idm) Black music / White music
permalink · <003601bf7e2d$cbbaac60$4721883e@ononoksid.freeserve.co.uk>
Written by Manuel Odendahl <blupingu@e503.hadiko.de> Subject: Black music / White music
quoted 2 lines I'm also wondering why people get upset about those white music stealers.>I'm also wondering why people get upset about those white music stealers. >Does it really matter if they are white ? They're music stealers that's
all,
quoted 1 line just don't listen to them.>just don't listen to them.
I'm also wondering why people get upset about those white slave traders. Does it really matter if they are white ? They're people stealers thats all, just don't read about them _> http://www.onoksid.freeserve.co.uk fuck the amish (those without computers) --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
2000-02-23 13:07Kelley HackettSetting the record Straight Drift, Thanks! All hell seems to break out when I comment! Hk!
From:
Kelley Hackett
To:
drift wood ,
Date:
Wed, 23 Feb 2000 08:07:33 -0500
Subject:
RE: (idm) Black music / White music
permalink · <397CA68ABF5AD111863C00805F0DDE980C4ACB@aba.iupui.edu>
Setting the record Straight Drift, Thanks! All hell seems to break out when I comment! Hk! -----Original Message----- From: drift wood [mailto:sequential_circus@yahoo.co.uk] Sent: Wednesday, February 23, 2000 7:12 AM To: idm@hyperreal.org Subject: Re: (idm) Black music / White music The facts are that record companies, critics and the white record buying public have constantly discriminated against music performed by Black Artists. Why is it that the NME granted only a few paragraphs to review Marvin Gaye's What's Going On in 1972? Because white journalists at that time looked down on dance music. Why was it that Cilla Black's inferior versions of Dionne Warwick songs were far bigger hits than the originals? Because the Record Companies believed that a White Singer was more acceptable to record buyers than a black singer. I know that it's extremely simplistic to split dance music into Black/White because it's rarely like that in practice, you only have to look at the members of the Stax house band, Booker & the MG's, to see that, and of course Burt Bacharach, Dionne Warwick's producer/songwriter is another example. Basically, the European Classical Music tradition has always looked down upon music of other ethnic origins, believing itself somehow intellectually superior. This attitude still appears from time to time, even on this list. Matt. --- zachary <zim200@is7.nyu.edu> wrote:
quoted 37 lines unfortunately, racism is here to stay.> unfortunately, racism is here to stay. > > i don't think it's a question of white appropriation any longer due > to the > fact that these genre-related boundaries have dissolved so much since > some > of the first acts of theft on [white people's] parts (i.e., jazz)... > YET, > the funniest thing about it is, jazz itself was a fusion of the > african > rhythmic and improvisational sense *with* european tonalities. off > the bat, > i don't think someone could say jazz is purely black music- it's > african-american music to be sure, but why not just american? there > were > and are a lot of talented white players- for instance, look at miles > davis' > "birth of the cool" roster: those guys were ALL WHITE, and that was > in the > late forties (we hadn't even gotten to mclaughlin, corea, scofield, > etc. > yet!) > > with blues, rock, hip-hop, techno, house, whatever else, it's the > same > fucking issue and you know what? FUCK IT. > > zachary > zim200is7.nyu.edu > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org > For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org > >
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2000-02-23 19:50TheevilD@aol.comFor the love of God, there is a distinction between white people who love 'black' music, a
From:
To:
Date:
Wed, 23 Feb 2000 14:50:09 EST
Subject:
Re: (idm) Black music / White music
permalink · <1e.1ce7781.25e593f1@aol.com>
For the love of God, there is a distinction between white people who love 'black' music, and are inspired by it to do more in the same vein, and white people who kidnap thousands of black men, women and children and force them to work on white owned plantations on a different continent. Even the likes of Fatboy Slim and Moby have no deeper motive than making happy music for people to enjoy themselves to: they exploit black musicians in the same way that Planet Rock exploited Kraftwerk. Jorkens
quoted 12 lines Written by Manuel Odendahl <blupingu@e503.hadiko.de>> Written by Manuel Odendahl <blupingu@e503.hadiko.de> > Subject: Black music / White music > > >I'm also wondering why people get upset about those white music stealers. > >Does it really matter if they are white ? They're music stealers that's > all, > >just don't listen to them. > > I'm also wondering why people get upset about those white slave traders. > Does it really > matter if they > are white ? They're people stealers thats all, just don't read about them
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2000-02-23 20:29Kelley HackettOf course there where African Slave sellers Fella......... Hk! -----Original Message-----
From:
Kelley Hackett
To:
_ ,
Date:
Wed, 23 Feb 2000 15:29:07 -0500
Subject:
RE: (idm) Black music / White music
permalink · <397CA68ABF5AD111863C00805F0DDE980C4ADA@aba.iupui.edu>
Of course there where African Slave sellers Fella......... Hk! -----Original Message----- From: _<<<___ [mailto:lis_n58@onoksid.freeserve.co.uk] Sent: Wednesday, February 23, 2000 7:22 AM To: idm@hyperreal.org Subject: (idm) Black music / White music Written by Manuel Odendahl <blupingu@e503.hadiko.de> Subject: Black music / White music
quoted 2 lines I'm also wondering why people get upset about those white music stealers.>I'm also wondering why people get upset about those white music stealers. >Does it really matter if they are white ? They're music stealers that's
all,
quoted 1 line just don't listen to them.>just don't listen to them.
I'm also wondering why people get upset about those white slave traders. Does it really matter if they are white ? They're people stealers thats all, just don't read about them _> http://www.onoksid.freeserve.co.uk fuck the amish (those without computers) --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org