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(idm) A CD better than _Play_ (was Re: (idm) article by moby in Time)

10 messages · 10 participants · spans 6 days · search this subject
◇ merged from 2 subjects: (idm) a cd better than _play_ (was re: (idm) article by moby in time) · (idm) article by moby in time
2000-02-16 21:04Frank St.Jacques (idm) article by moby in Time
├─ 2000-02-16 22:41Danny Freer Re: (idm) article by moby in Time
└─ 2000-02-17 05:05adam.florin Re: (idm) article by moby in Time
2000-02-16 22:40Robert Galbraith Re: (idm) article by moby in Time
2000-02-17 14:24Andrew Duke Re: (idm) article by moby in Time
└─ 2000-02-17 15:45Greg Clow Re: (idm) article by moby in Time
└─ 2000-02-18 09:58Irene McC Re: (idm) article by moby in Time
├─ 2000-02-18 10:07Paul Robinson Re: (idm) article by moby in Time
└─ 2000-02-18 10:17Andrew Hime Re: (idm) article by moby in Time
2000-02-22 18:26Adam J Weitzman (idm) A CD better than _Play_ (was Re: (idm) article by moby in Time)
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2000-02-16 21:04Frank St.JacquesHello, There is a short article by Moby in the February 21st issue of Time magazine. It's
From:
Frank St.Jacques
To:
idm.list
Date:
16 Feb 00 16:04:44 EST
Subject:
(idm) article by moby in Time
permalink · <20000216210444.17242.qmail@nwcst323.netaddress.usa.net>
Hello, There is a short article by Moby in the February 21st issue of Time magazine. It's titled, "How will we Listen to Music". He suggests that in the future music will be instantly accessible and infinitely variable. For example, "People...will be able to...take the drums from a Led Zepplin song and put Billie Holiday's vocals on top of them and then play the whole thing backward and twice as fast but at the original pitch". Sounds lovely! cheers, frank ____________________________________________________________________ Get free email and a permanent address at http://www.netaddress.com/?N=1 --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
2000-02-16 22:41Danny FreerAt 04:04 PM 2/16/00 -0500, Frank St.Jacques wrote: >There is a short article by Moby in th
From:
Danny Freer
To:
Date:
Wed, 16 Feb 2000 17:41:09 -0500
Subject:
Re: (idm) article by moby in Time
Reply to:
(idm) article by moby in Time
permalink · <4.2.0.58.20000216173610.00a679c0@horsetrading.com>
At 04:04 PM 2/16/00 -0500, Frank St.Jacques wrote:
quoted 7 lines There is a short article by Moby in the February 21st>There is a short article by Moby in the February 21st >issue of Time magazine. He suggests that in the future music will >be instantly accessible and infinitely variable. For >example, "People...will be able to...take the drums from >a Led Zepplin song and put Billie Holiday's vocals on top >of them and then play the whole thing backward and twice as fast >but at the original pitch". Sounds lovely! cheers,
Does he think there will be a time when you can take pretty good techno music and remove it completely and then replace that techno with embarrassing, shitty pseudo-punk guitar wanking? Oh, wait, he's already discovered how to do that. Forget I asked. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
2000-02-17 05:05adam.florinthis idea of music being assembled by each individual for himself (rather than by professi
From:
adam.florin
To:
Date:
Wed, 16 Feb 2000 21:05:49 -0800
Subject:
Re: (idm) article by moby in Time
Reply to:
(idm) article by moby in Time
permalink · <v04003a03b4d11001668c@[207.44.229.204]>
this idea of music being assembled by each individual for himself (rather than by professional musicians) is not quite moby's invention. jacques attali, in his book _noise_, talks about the four stages of evolution of music, the last of which being a stage of "composition," which is essentially what moby describes. in fact, what he speaks of is already quite possible ; it's just that the average schmoe can't do it, only geeks and audiomeisters. the idea, i suppose, is that everyone should have access to these tools. "giving the people what they want" is very much a trend in pop culture these days, and as cheesy shockwave "music-makers" and cd-roms become more and more *interactive,* it will eventually be we the listeners that assemble each song based on our own specifications. i disagree with it all. it creates a sort of infinite loop : if people are given "what they want" from the get-go, how will they know what they want ? what i want is determined by my past experiences, namely a number of experiences that i did not want to experience. if i had gotten what i wanted all my life, i would be either a wreck or a total blank slate. in fact, all that i have to be thankful for is that which i did not want. and--to restore idm content--that is why it is a good idea to listen to ep7 repeatedly. (cf. recent thread, "Re: chiastic slide") i think, of my absolute favorite discs, probably one third to half i frowned at on the first listen. the most lasting music is that which introduces one to a new paradigm of listening, and therefore takes time to grown accustomed to. Noah Sasso wrote (in the "cs" thread) :
quoted 3 lines if you don't like it, don't feel like you have to listen and listen until>if you don't like it, don't feel like you have to listen and listen until >you do; listen >to something else that you actually do like, and you'll be happier.
instant happiness is played out. live the idm dream and listen to something that makes you feel a bit uncomfortable for a while...... .af. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
2000-02-16 22:40Robert GalbraithDo we really need this level of interactivity. Isn't it enough to hear gospel and blues st
From:
Robert Galbraith
To:
Date:
Wed, 16 Feb 2000 17:40:43 -0500
Subject:
Re: (idm) article by moby in Time
permalink · <014301bf78ce$dc9658e0$49a35dcf@oemcomputer>
Do we really need this level of interactivity. Isn't it enough to hear gospel and blues stuff over fatboy slim beats. I'm always shocked at how the press chooses moby as a spokesperson for electronic culture. Rob component records http://www.mindstorm.com/component ----- Original Message ----- From: Frank St.Jacques <frank.st.jacques@usa.net> To: idm.list <idm@hyperreal.org> Sent: Wednesday, February 16, 2000 4:04 PM Subject: (idm) article by moby in Time Hello, There is a short article by Moby in the February 21st issue of Time magazine. It's titled, "How will we Listen to Music". He suggests that in the future music will be instantly accessible and infinitely variable. For example, "People...will be able to...take the drums from a Led Zepplin song and put Billie Holiday's vocals on top of them and then play the whole thing backward and twice as fast but at the original pitch". Sounds lovely! cheers, frank ____________________________________________________________________ Get free email and a permanent address at http://www.netaddress.com/?N=1 --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
2000-02-17 14:24Andrew Dukeagreed, rob. though i'm also a strict no drugs, no meat/animal products (strict vegetarian
From:
Andrew Duke
To:
Robert Galbraith , ...IDM list
Date:
Thu, 17 Feb 2000 10:24:49 -0400
Subject:
Re: (idm) article by moby in Time
permalink · <38AC04B1.13EBD046@ns.sympatico.ca>
agreed, rob. though i'm also a strict no drugs, no meat/animal products (strict vegetarian) person (not religious like him, though), try to do good kind of person with personal politics and such, i think moby is a total idiot. other than that "go!" track he did early on, it's just been crap, IMO. and i heard him do a dj set online recently and it was pathetic the horrible songs he was playing. if he's not a dj but his "name power" gets him dj bookings, he could at least play and expose his followers to some music of quality. he djed after derrick may and it was disgusting how moby totally killed the vibe may had built up. anyway, i'm digressing; i think it is apalling that white men like moby and fatboy slim and others bastardize black standards/spirituals/classics to make their "electronica" shite. how can that be "music for the year 2000?" (my quotes) heck, anyone with access to the Lomax compendiums can make money off the backs of dead black *musicians* and *artists* (i'm stressing the words on purpose). it takes some ethics to *not* do this, but fatboy, moby, et al seem content to toss all sense of morals et al out the window when it comes to making radio friendly poplectronica. related: every time i go into the local record store here, they're playing that aphrodite "album". the owner and i both agree it stinks, but he says every time he plays it, he sells copies. listening to aphrodite, it's obvious that it's all mantronix' "king of the beats", schooly d's "saturday night" et al, etc, etc, etc. but, with aphrodite making the big bucks and with major label support, does he clear those samples? NOPE! i can understand how/why people who press up limited runs of material on vinyl that uses samples don't clear their samples, but for someone like aphrodite making money on the backs of pioneers like schooly d and mantronix et al and not giving them *any credit* whatsoever in the liner notes, it shows that he cares only about the $. he can afford to clear samples, but chooses not to. the worst thing is that the kids getting into the aphrodite are *really* getting into the schooly d, mantronix et al that he's *sampling*, yet, because he doesn't credit them, schooly d, mantronix and the others that made his music possible don't benefit. some are about the $, while others are about the music. andrew duke Robert Galbraith wrote:
quoted 47 lines Do we really need this level of interactivity.> Do we really need this level of interactivity. > Isn't it enough to hear gospel and blues > stuff over fatboy slim beats. I'm always > shocked at how the press chooses moby > as a spokesperson for electronic culture. > > Rob > > component records > http://www.mindstorm.com/component > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Frank St.Jacques <frank.st.jacques@usa.net> > To: idm.list <idm@hyperreal.org> > Sent: Wednesday, February 16, 2000 4:04 PM > Subject: (idm) article by moby in Time > > Hello, > > There is a short article by > Moby in the February 21st > issue of Time magazine. It's > titled, "How will we Listen > to Music". He suggests > that in the future music will > be instantly accessible and > infinitely variable. For > example, "People...will be > able to...take the drums from > a Led Zepplin song and put > Billie Holiday's vocals on top > of them and then play the whole > thing backward and twice as fast > but at the original pitch". > Sounds lovely! cheers, > > frank > > ____________________________________________________________________ > Get free email and a permanent address at http://www.netaddress.com/?N=1 > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org > For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org > For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
-- Cognition/Andrew Duke's In The Mix mailto:cognition@techno.ca http://techno.ca/cognition 1096 Queen St #123 Halifax NS Canada B3H 2R9 --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
2000-02-17 15:45Greg ClowOn Thu, 17 Feb 2000, Andrew Duke wrote: > i think it is apalling that white men like > mob
From:
Greg Clow
To:
...IDM list
Date:
Thu, 17 Feb 2000 10:45:31 -0500 (EST)
Subject:
Re: (idm) article by moby in Time
Reply to:
Re: (idm) article by moby in Time
permalink · <Pine.GSU.4.05.10002171027220.16931-100000@psyche.the-wire.com>
On Thu, 17 Feb 2000, Andrew Duke wrote:
quoted 13 lines i think it is apalling that white men like> i think it is apalling that white men like > moby and fatboy slim and others bastardize black > standards/spirituals/classics to make their > "electronica" shite. how can that be "music > for the year 2000?" (my quotes) heck, > anyone with access to the Lomax compendiums > can make money off the backs of dead black > *musicians* and *artists* (i'm stressing the > words on purpose). it takes some ethics > to *not* do this, but fatboy, moby, et al > seem content to toss all sense of morals et al > out the window when it comes to making > radio friendly poplectronica.
95% of what is discussed on this list is music by white folks that was born out of music by black folks. Western music in general has a not-so-proud tradition of taking the music of blacks and indigenous peoples and watering it down a bit for a white audience. Not saying that it's RIGHT, just saying that this is nothing new. As technology has changed, it's now possible to actually use the original works as part of the new composition as opposed to finding a white artist who "sounds black - but not *too* black" (i.e. Elvis) to interpet black music for acceptance by whites. But the premise is basically the same. All that being said, though - I don't view what Moby has done on "Play" to be as morally repugnant as what happened in the early days of rock & roll because unlike the 50s, "real" black music is actually being played on the radio/TV/etc., and is actually being listened to by white people. Hip-hop culture is massive and has crossed the colour lines sucessfully - even though some will argue that it took Aerosmith teaming up with Run DMC to do so. :) White people don't *have* to bring black music to whites, 'cause black people are now able to do it themselves. And to be honest (and at risk of losing my IDM-d00d street cred), I think Moby's "Play" album is fucking great. And this is coming from someone who has hated nearly every note the guy has recorded previous to this record. I still think that he's a bit of a knobhead in a lot of ways, but I think he has a true respect for the original music that he borrowed for the album, and I don't think he had any ulterior "getting rich off the backs of dead, black artists" motives. Whether you like him or hate him, you have to admit that Moby's track record proves that he does whatever the hell he wants/enjoys regardless of the resulting commericial success/failure. Greg -- Greg Clow - greg@stainedproductions.com - http://www.stainedproductions.com feedback monitor - electronic & experimental radio/reviews/interviews http://www.stainedproductions.com/feedback/ 158 Close Ave. 2nd Floor - Toronto, Ontario M6K 2V5 - Canada --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
2000-02-18 09:58Irene McCOn 17 Feb 00, Greg Clow wrote re Re: (idm) article by moby in Time: > think Moby's "Play"
From:
Irene McC
To:
,
Date:
Fri, 18 Feb 2000 11:58:18 +0200
Subject:
Re: (idm) article by moby in Time
Reply to:
Re: (idm) article by moby in Time
permalink · <E12LkDL-0008AL-00@smtp03.iafrica.com>
On 17 Feb 00, Greg Clow wrote re Re: (idm) article by moby in Time:
quoted 3 lines think Moby's "Play" album is fucking great. And this is coming> think Moby's "Play" album is fucking great. And this is coming > from someone who has hated nearly every note the guy has recorded > previous to this record.
Yip : gotta agree with this and 'come out' saying so! Not right the way through, but some tracks are excellent - and I LOVE Honey. It's just sooooo infectuous that I have to hit the repeat button and dance around the room like a loon. The only other passable Moby is 'Hymn.alt.quiet.version' which is a half-hour single track of dips and swoops through a variety of soundscapes - great to lie back and close your eyes to. Virtually everything else he's done is total crap. Not that he cares what we think. I * np : Daniel Ibbotson / frequency & phase --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
2000-02-18 10:07Paul RobinsonMoby's a one hit wonder IMHO.... :-) At 11:58 18/02/00 +0200, you wrote: >On 17 Feb 00, Gr
From:
Paul Robinson
To:
Date:
Fri, 18 Feb 2000 10:07:14 +0000
Subject:
Re: (idm) article by moby in Time
Reply to:
Re: (idm) article by moby in Time
permalink · <3.0.5.32.20000218100714.008c5420@mailgate.team17.com>
Moby's a one hit wonder IMHO.... :-) At 11:58 18/02/00 +0200, you wrote:
quoted 28 lines On 17 Feb 00, Greg Clow wrote re Re: (idm) article by moby in Time:>On 17 Feb 00, Greg Clow wrote re Re: (idm) article by moby in Time: > >> think Moby's "Play" album is fucking great. And this is coming >> from someone who has hated nearly every note the guy has recorded >> previous to this record. > >Yip : gotta agree with this and 'come out' saying so! Not right the >way through, but some tracks are excellent - and I LOVE Honey. >It's just sooooo infectuous that I have to hit the repeat button and >dance around the room like a loon. > >The only other passable Moby is 'Hymn.alt.quiet.version' which is a >half-hour single track of dips and swoops through a variety of >soundscapes - great to lie back and close your eyes to. Virtually >everything else he's done is total crap. > >Not that he cares what we think. > >I >* >np : Daniel Ibbotson / frequency & phase > > >--------------------------------------------------------------------- >To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org >For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org > >
[paul robinson] [graphic designer] [team17 software ltd.] [united kingdom] [phoenix.team17.com] [www.team17.com] [worms.team17.com] --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
2000-02-18 10:17Andrew Hime> > think Moby's "Play" album is fucking great. And this is coming > > from someone who ha
From:
Andrew Hime
To:
Date:
Fri, 18 Feb 2000 04:17:53 -0600 (CST)
Subject:
Re: (idm) article by moby in Time
Reply to:
Re: (idm) article by moby in Time
permalink · <200002181017.EAA65850@kali.wf.net>
quoted 3 lines think Moby's "Play" album is fucking great. And this is coming> > think Moby's "Play" album is fucking great. And this is coming > > from someone who has hated nearly every note the guy has recorded > > previous to this record.
Same here. I passed on _Animal Rights_, but I am very familiar with the catalog of Moby.
quoted 4 lines Yip : gotta agree with this and 'come out' saying so! Not right the> Yip : gotta agree with this and 'come out' saying so! Not right the > way through, but some tracks are excellent - and I LOVE Honey. > It's just sooooo infectuous that I have to hit the repeat button and > dance around the room like a loon.
It's his best work... if you need an enema, your instant response is of course "that's not saying much". But then, anything danceable or semi-popular is crap, right? My favorite track is actually "Porcelain", which as far as I can tell, doesn't even sample Lomax. Oh yeah, and I like Fatboy Slim too. That and good taste are *NOT* mutually exclusive. And I dare say he's not exactly in the poorest taste either. But then, he is danceable and (now) semi-popular. I remember when Skint had just started and some white kid in Texas was trying to figure out just who the fuck this guy was who did "The Weekend Starts Here". And then why it was pressed at 33rpm. Gack.
quoted 4 lines The only other passable Moby is 'Hymn.alt.quiet.version' which is a> The only other passable Moby is 'Hymn.alt.quiet.version' which is a > half-hour single track of dips and swoops through a variety of > soundscapes - great to lie back and close your eyes to. Virtually > everything else he's done is total crap.
Not true, there's also "Underwater", "Alive", and "The Rain Falls and the Sky Shudders". That's just on the ambient soundscape tip... I like a big cross section of his work, even the guitar stuff.
quoted 1 line Not that he cares what we think.> Not that he cares what we think.
When you're an artist, I think that's how you know you're right. Although then I wonder about Creed and Days of the New and Limp Bizkit. Yuck. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
2000-02-22 18:26Adam J WeitzmanI realize this subject has been beaten to death (with many implements) recently, but I wan
From:
Adam J Weitzman
To:
IDM Mailing List
Date:
Tue, 22 Feb 2000 13:26:06 -0500
Subject:
(idm) A CD better than _Play_ (was Re: (idm) article by moby in Time)
permalink · <38B2D4BE.4CF57E0E@newsedge.com>
I realize this subject has been beaten to death (with many implements) recently, but I wanted to add that if you have any affinity for Moby's _Play_ at all (which I do), then you owe it to yourself to check out a better record from five years earlier. I am of course referring to the most excellent CD by Little Axe from 1994, entitled _The_Wolf_That_House_Built_. It was primarily the work of Skip McDonald of On-U Sound fame, with Doug Wimbish, Keith LeBlanc and Talvin Singh assisting, and Adrian Sherwood at the controls. The difference between this and _Play_, in my opinion, is that on _Play_, the older samples mostly drive the songs and little original material is added to them, whereas on _Wolf_ the songs are already well-formed and bluesy, and the samples add great texture to the mix. It was released in the US on a Sony-related label, and it's still in print, so I hope you take the opportunity to listen to it if you can. It's at least five years ahead of its time, and only two years later than Recoil's 1992 song "Electro Blues For Bukka White," which appeared on an album (_Bloodline_) which also featured Moby on a different track. :-) Pop will eat itself, indeed. -- Adam J Weitzman, NewsEdge Corp. (soon RoweCom Inc.) http://www.newsedge.com - http://www.individual.com "Humor is the best way of dealing with complete and utter nonsense." - John Lydon --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org