IDM Mailing Archive

hi people, I'm interested in the notion of "IDM" itself. What, for instance, differentiates it from alt.techno? How come people like underworld, or orbital never get talked about in here? How come 'drum and bass' gets talked about, when it can also be on the 'stupid' tip?? hiphop?? ragga?? surely, these are intelligent? they can *both* come out of roland boxes too. "Intelligent Techno" was a marketing device/label dreamt up by suits/journo's about 3 (or was it 4) years ago. Sometimes i can find the term insulting. are we saying that classic "techno" as produced by people like derrick may isn't "intelligent"? Similarly, when it was underground (alive) it was called "Jungle", now it's called "drum and bass" and is subliminally under adverts for everything from cars to shampoo. Underground? I don't think there is one anymore. The majors appear to have everything pretty much sewn up. The pirate radio, once crackling with new volatile energies, now just cranks out the same old tunes. Blech? Exactly. Repent, and dig out your irdial records. -- + . /\___/\ . * | < The Black Dog > | + * . . * . . * (. .) + | | . * . * + ___ooO__\-/__Ooo___ | | + + + + . /\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/ | Dogma >> | http://www.feedback.com/tbd/ * 3-5-3 * (Dis)information > | tbd@feedback.com

quoted 2 lines How come people like underworld,

> How come people like underworld, > or orbital never get talked about in here?

Huh? We do, we're just sick of them at the moment (I am anyway). You can only talk about them so much. I'd much rather go on about blue angel records and obscure luke vibert remixes.

quoted 3 lines Sometimes i can find the term insulting. are we

> Sometimes i can find the term insulting. are we > saying that classic "techno" as produced by people > like derrick may isn't "intelligent"?

We've been over all this many times. We all agreed without exception I think that those of detroit certainly did make intellegent (beyond simply "intellegent") music. It's not a real point of debate on the list. The term is more a reaction against the sort of mindless 4 on the floor sameness that dominates most of what is called dance music. See the IDM manifesto for details.

quoted 2 lines hiphop??

> hiphop?? > ragga??

Wrong list. I used to listen to hip-hop until i got sick of the same shit over and over. When everyone started ripping off George Clinton instead of James Brown I figured it was time to move on. Ninjas and the others fill the void quite nicely.

quoted 2 lines Underground?

> Underground? > I don't think there is one anymore.

All I know is I go to the store, I buy the record, I take it home and listen to it. Who gives a rats ass about underground. If a couple thousand people want to buy the same record as me, oh well - happy listening to them. Who cares what anyone else doing? If you like it, you like it. (seriously avoiding writing a paper), gonzi.

Hi Gonzi, > Huh? We do, we're just sick of them ah. ok, thanks. i was just wondering. > The term is more a reaction against the sort of mindless 4 on the > floor sameness that dominates most of what is called dance music. isn't drum and bass the new FOTF? > Wrong list. but...it's intelligent...it's dance...and it's music. I can't help but feel it would liven up conversations in here, if you guys would "open up a little". To be honest, i actually enjoyed the U2 thread, though (obviously) i think they're the biggest pile of old wank going.

quoted 1 line If you like it, you like it.

> If you like it, you like it.

nice one. -- + . /\___/\ . * | < The Black Dog > | + * . . * . . * (. .) + | | . * . * + ___ooO__\-/__Ooo___ | | + + + + . /\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/ | Dogma >> | http://www.feedback.com/tbd/ * 3-5-3 * (Dis)information > | tbd@feedback.com

Hi Franz, > heh. you missed the biggest thread so far in the history of IDM grin, lucky me. > it's hard to make interesting music with a 303... err..._really_ ?? what, are you fed up with the sound, or something? in the hands of an experienced operator...

quoted 3 lines however, i don't think everything that can come

> however, i don't think everything that can come > from roland boxes is to be defined "techno", do > you?

it depends on which way the wind is blowing.

quoted 1 line so? jungle, drum n bass. big deal. same stuff anyway

> so? jungle, drum n bass. big deal. same stuff anyway

no, i dont think so. pirate radio's "jungle" originally consisted of an MC with three three turntables, a microphone, and no budget. the whole thing reeked/reeks of "street energy", the raps were real and relevent. D&B is a safe and sanitized cousin, just "something to sell". (imho).

quoted 2 lines i've heard better drumnbass from lucozade or vidalsasoon

> i've heard better drumnbass from lucozade or vidalsasoon > adverts than from "underground" white labels...

exactly! its sampled off CD, slammed through expensive digital equipment by a fat professional, probably in germany. it's a tragedy of homeric proportions.

quoted 2 lines underground

>> underground > there's never been one.

word of mouth line of radio horizon (like in the old days) Cheers, Ken -- + . /\___/\ . * | < The Black Dog > | + * . . * . . * (. .) + | | . * . * + ___ooO__\-/__Ooo___ | | + + + + . /\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/ | Dogma >> | http://www.feedback.com/tbd/ * 3-5-3 * (Dis)information > | tbd@feedback.com

On 18-Mar-97 Black Dog Droid wrote:

quoted 5 lines it's hard to make interesting music with a 303...

> > it's hard to make interesting music with a 303... > >err..._really_ ?? what, are you fed up with >the sound, or something? in the hands of an >experienced operator...

i'd agree with the original poster... the tweaky 303 filter turn to the climax is so overdone. it is *possible* to be interesting with a 303 but i don't think it's as simple as bash all the buttons turn the knobs till it sounds like a big ole synth orgasm (hi josh wink). i think Off And Gone are the hands down winners with 303 programming. they use its built in "funk factor" and not the "tweak til you puke" effect.

quoted 7 lines no, i dont think so. pirate radio's "jungle"

>no, i dont think so. pirate radio's "jungle" >originally consisted of an MC with three >three turntables, a microphone, and no budget. >the whole thing reeked/reeks of "street energy", >the raps were real and relevent. D&B is a safe >and sanitized cousin, just "something to sell". >(imho).

yeah but there will always be 95% crap and 5% clever interesting bits no matter what the genre. as d&b is on the rise now, the 95% crap will be easier and easier to spot while the 5% good stuff will be harder and harder to spot. when there's only 10 records coming out a week it's easy to listen to all of them and pick the 1 you like.

quoted 7 lines underground

>>> underground >> there's never been one. > > word of mouth >line of radio horizon > >(like in the old days)

it's a myth. the underground is only "stuff i like that my friend hasn't heard." -j- live from bass kitten towers (scratching and purring) now playing: coldcut - crash the system (bedouin ascent remix)

Dear random junk, > it is *possible* to be interesting with a 303 but i don't > think it's as simple as bash all the buttons turn the knobs nod, so now you don't agree with the previous poster? make your mind up mate :) personally i'd blame the users rather than the box, i believe there's still life in it.

quoted 2 lines yeah but there will always be 95% crap and 5% clever

> yeah but there will always be 95% crap and 5% clever > interesting bits no matter what the genre.

maybe a little high, but yeah, i see your point.

quoted 2 lines underground

>>underground > it's a myth.

or so, you'd like to believe. :) Cheers, Ken -- + . /\___/\ . * | < The Black Dog > | + * . . * . . * (. .) + | | . * . * + ___ooO__\-/__Ooo___ | | + + + + . /\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/ | Dogma >> | http://www.feedback.com/tbd/ * 3-5-3 * (Dis)information > | tbd@feedback.com

zoot@sparta.dogsquad.com (Black Dog Droid) writes:

quoted 5 lines Wrong list.

> > Wrong list. > > but...it's intelligent...it's dance...and it's music. > I can't help but feel it would liven up conversations > in here, if you guys would "open up a little".

That's not the way a mailing list works, really. A mailing list is usually (after it's been going for a while) only somewhat tangentially "about" what the original stated purpose of the list was. A mailing list is a collection of messages from people on the list, about whatever people feel like talking about. The development of the idm list is pretty typical. Someone discovers that they are listening to a group of artists that seem to have something or other in common with each other, and that there seems to be interest in establishing a forum to discuss these artists. (In this case it was AFX, Orbital, Black Dog, Autechre, Underworld, etc.) A name has to be chosen, and "idm" is as good as "blahblah". As time passes, people on the list get excited about other artists (Goldie, Ninja Tune, and so on) and people talk about them instead. If people collectively got interested in Siberian mouth music instead, that would be what would be discussed here. The same phenomenon could was rather marked on the 4ad mailing list in 92-93 when nobody ever talked about any artists associated with 4ad, it seemed like. -- (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) larsi@ifi.uio.no * Lars Ingebrigtsen

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quoted 1 line From: Black Dog Droid

> From: Black Dog Droid

quoted 7 lines underground

> >> underground > > there's never been one. > > word of mouth > line of radio horizon > > (like in the old days)

so later on the word of mouth is plastered across billboards and *ehem* mailing lists... we all hear about it, the music loses it's quality overnight, and suddenly the artist has no motivation but sales. then we listen for a few months more, realize it wasn't that great to begin with, rebel against the newfound 'genres', and move along quietly. (like in the old days) wait wait, I mustnt use 'we' - that would imply a plurality in the individuals liking. someone other than the direct artist - to - listener link. the same as any reviews, telling you what to think. how mainstream! paul roquet bravopop@mother.com . http://www.mother.com/~bravopop .. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . in the way - on the way - by the way - out of the way

Hi Paul,

quoted 3 lines so later on the word of mouth is plastered across billboards and *ehem*

> so later on the word of mouth is plastered across billboards and *ehem* > mailing lists... we all hear about it, the music loses it's quality > overnight, and suddenly the artist has no motivation but sales.

nod, mostly. but what you outline is the transitionary phase from being an "underground" artist, to a "contemporary" one supported by a major label. to me, when the "fire is alive" in the artist, they're 'underground'. signing to a major, almost invariably puts the fire out.

quoted 1 line realize it wasn't that great to begin with

> realize it wasn't that great to begin with

well, thats subjective, isn't it. I still listen to, and love my old records, even if the bands themselves have since moved on, or sold out. (stereo mc's...mantronix...etc) Cheers, Ken -- + . /\___/\ . * | < The Black Dog > | + * . . * . . * (. .) + | | . * . * + ___ooO__\-/__Ooo___ | | + + + + . /\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/ | Dogma >> | http://www.feedback.com/tbd/ * 3-5-3 * (Dis)information > | tbd@feedback.com

In a message dated 18/03/97 01:36:44, you write:

quoted 2 lines i'd agree with the original poster... the tweaky 303 filter turn to the

> i'd agree with the original poster... the tweaky 303 filter turn to the > climax is so overdone.

So called acid music is a very sick and ill child today. Listen to a Phuture or Pierre record and you won't hear *any* climaxes and buildups (designed so club-going deadheads have something to be entertained by), you will hear the 303 used as a device to add funk and freshness to the beats, with the mix a focus for the inspiring sounds it makes.

quoted 1 line like a big ole synth orgasm (hi josh wink).

> like a big ole synth orgasm (hi josh wink).

My middle aged manager at work loves that track.

quoted 2 lines i think Off And Gone are the hands

> i think Off And Gone are the hands > down winners with 303 programming. they use its built in "funk factor" and

not

quoted 1 line the "tweak til you puke" effect.

> the "tweak til you puke" effect.

Nah! Buy something like Mad Mike's Nation 2 Nation or Galaxy 2 Galaxy. Cheerio! What'son? Archives - Reload