IDM Mailing Archive

On Sat, 15 Mar 1997, GD wrote: ]I hope that someone picks up on this aspect of Ae's output, and starts ]doing music that grabs both of these components - the rhythmic and ]structural innovations - to make electronica that's closer to a ]combination of jazz and classical music but with more tonal and textural ]variety than either of these genres. It's going to be hard electronically reproducing the tonal variety of classical music, considering the whole "hey we got an orchestra" factor... .-------------------------------------------------------------------------. | nm: nickworthington | ml: nworth1@umbc.edu | .25grandizer1wrecktangle | |-------------------------------------------------------------------------| | http://www.gl.umbc.edu/~nworth1 | "Walk softly and carry a big spliff." | `-------------------------------------------------------------------------'

quoted 6 lines On Sat, 15 Mar 1997, GD wrote:

> On Sat, 15 Mar 1997, GD wrote: > ]I hope that someone picks up on this aspect of Ae's output, and starts > ]doing music that grabs both of these components - the rhythmic and > ]structural innovations - to make electronica that's closer to a > ]combination of jazz and classical music but with more tonal and textural > ]variety than either of these genres.

I've raised the point of structure in dance music before, and received a number of interesting responses, most of which I didn't have time to reply adequately to--big exams on the horizon :( -- but it's too important to me to keep quiet now. More below. wrecktangle:

quoted 2 lines It's going to be hard electronically reproducing the tonal variety of

> It's going to be hard electronically reproducing the tonal variety of > classical music, considering the whole "hey we got an orchestra" factor...

Of course it's a bad idea to try to "reproduce" the sort of *timbral* variety you find in orchestral music on synthesizers; electronica has a totally different kind of timbral variety. But I can see no reason why electronic music *couldn't* incorporate ideas of structure from western concert music, as well as techniques for using harmony and rhythm to articulate those structural concepts. There are several reasons why this *isn't* being done. It takes time--a lot of time--years--to learn how, say, Stravinsky works and then to figure out how that might be made to apply to dance music. I doubt most dance artists would see this as a worthwhile investment of time, since dance music culture doesn't revolve around these musical issues, and it's more cost-effective to use your time primarily to produce more music. A more serious problem is that the structural ideas I'm talking about almost certainly conflict with the things DJs look for in records, or, more to the point, that the authentic musical practice of mixing casts doubt on the relevance of "structural integrity" in today's music--if it doesn't completely destroy it. Does structure manner anymore? Maybe not, but I think it can, and it's something I want to hear. The question of *how* is one that I'm grappling with in my own music. It'll be a while before I have anything really stunning--I'm still learning the equipment--but I can already see how fantastic it could be. Say you're listening to a long track, and it's pulled you through six or seven different musical worlds that seem not to have much in common (except tempo, maybe), and all of a sudden one chord comes along that brings everything into focus. But there's the DJ problem again, because if you start mixing midway through the track, the power of that one chord is reduced to the extent that its context hasn't been prepared. So I guess I'm talking about dance music mutating into something else, or a side-stream of dance music, but not really dance music itself. I'm not sure what place it has on the "scene"--and who knows, maybe I'm just wasting my time. I just know I *really* want to hear what could happen, and if it comes down to me to do it, I will. Comments welcome--especially if they'll help me figure out how to do what I want to do musically. I can't promise quick or extensive replies, since I have doctoral exams in about two weeks (still avoiding panic, maybe it's just denial), but if this interests you, I'd like to hear what you have to say. Thanks! J ________ \ / | Bee women: "What kind of corn soldiers are you?" H. James Harkins | Arthur: "Umm, oh, er, we're, uh, we're colonels." jharkins@acpub.duke.edu | \/ | - from "The Tick," now on Comedy Central, 6PM M-F

quoted 13 lines wrecktangle:

> wrecktangle: >> It's going to be hard electronically reproducing the tonal variety of >> classical music, considering the whole "hey we got an orchestra" factor... > > Of course it's a bad idea to try to "reproduce" the sort of *timbral* > variety you find in orchestral music on synthesizers; electronica has a > totally different kind of timbral variety. But I can see no reason why > electronic music *couldn't* incorporate ideas of structure from western > concert music, [...] > > There are several reasons why this *isn't* being done. It takes time--a > lot of time--years--to learn how, say, Stravinsky works and then to > figure out how that might be made to apply to dance music. [...]

quoted 3 lines Does structure matter anymore? [...]

> Does structure matter anymore? [...] > > So I guess I'm talking about dance music mutating into something else [...]

NO!! NO MORE RICK WAKEMAN!!! NO MORE "TALES FROM PORNOGRAPHIC TOASTER OVENS"! AIEEEEEEE ... hehehehe ... - Greg