IDM Mailing Archive

Hey guys! What's this list coming to? Lately I've recieved about 70-80 mails /day and _VERY_ few of these have actually contained any information worthwile. I mean, this orbital thing, It's fuckin hilarious... The worst thing tho is that this list ain't no IDM discussion list nomore. People are discussing U2, Frank Sinatra, Miles Davis, Primal Scream, David Bowie, Prince n samba. People are selling stupid drummachines, and discuss what kind of headphones one should use. People are advertising for their computer-demo homepage. People are asking for good shops in this-or-that area. All this is to be justified with putting a "on: aphex twin; blue calx" beneath the signature. I won't let you think that I'm some kinda snowed under narrowminded twat sitting with my computer complaining about all n everything. Actually i kinda like Sinatra n U2, and i'm pretty interested in knowing about different turntables. If i could, I'll prolly try to sell you a sequencer or two as well. But this is not what this list is about. Or am I wrong? I thank those who still post reviews, for-sale lists (i've gotten myself some really great music this way, at a cheap rate), information about new releases, all these kinda things. I admire ppl like Fresh, James Skilton and Jason McCollum for actually diong something that matters. I think this list would work very well as some kind of forum between us and the people involved in the releases that we praise on this list but... Ken Downing left, Grant from Rephlex spoke about leaving, and I haven't seen a post from Warp-Greg for a long time... Lemme say this: I'm not surprised... Lately there's also been posts from people who didn't find this list useful, and If I recently subscribed I would've left faster than I came... Now as it happens to be, I've been on this list for some while and I know that every now and then intelligent and/or interesing posts pop up, I've also made some great frinds thanks to this list,but If I didn't have my free internet offer I would do this to myself. I wouldn't fucking plow through 80 senseless posts a day. I believe the situation has to be thought over... Any suggestions of what to do? Or is it only me feeling this way... Opinions anyone. yeah, and fear my spelling. Cheers, Franz Enmark typ Levnadsklapare. On: The Black Dog: Music for Adverts. --- franz enmark --- extra terrestrial --- --- there's a sheep loose in the lane, --- --- there's a goose asleep in the rain --- --- http://tbm.scicom.se/plod -----od?----

quoted 1 line there is an IDM/U2 connection......

> there is an IDM/U2 connection......

I heard the new U2 song, and it's fucking awful. The problem with these rockers who try to start incorporating dance music elements into their songs is that they try to keep the rock elements in as well so it ALWAYS comes out sounding overproduced. The new U2 track is a perfect example. To many chefs in the kitchen.... _____ / ,-,_) /,_) (/ RESH Live & Direct from the G-Spot, Orange County, California, USA http://www1.linkonline.net/fresh/fresh.htm

quoted 7 lines there is an IDM/U2 connection......

> > there is an IDM/U2 connection...... > > I heard the new U2 song, and it's fucking awful. The problem with these > rockers who try to start incorporating dance music elements into their > songs is that they try to keep the rock elements in as well so it ALWAYS > comes out sounding overproduced. The new U2 track is a perfect example. > To many chefs in the kitchen....

So what you're saying is "the problem with their trying to blend X with Y is that they DO end up blending X with Y." What's wrong with that? I'd rather see U2 take a stab at technofying their rock than have them join the already overcrowded tent of pure dance music. Ashok onnow - Spooky "Gargantuan"

Fresh wrote:

quoted 1 line I heard the new U2 song, and it's fucking awful.

>I heard the new U2 song, and it's fucking awful.

agreed! I thought it was The Village People making a come back! (though the video didn't help matters with the The Village People look). It sounded like a disco song with a pseudo 90's dance flavor added to it. Does this make sense? You catch my drift.

quoted 4 lines The problem with these

>The problem with these >rockers who try to start incorporating dance music elements into their >songs is that they try to keep the rock elements in as well so it ALWAYS >comes out sounding overproduced.

Primal Scream *sucessfully* incorporated dance music. oops there's that Primal Scream name again on the IDM.

there is an IDM/U2 connection...... someone used a sample of someone else......and that sample is on their newest lp......and most of us have the record the sample was taken from beyond this I swore I'd never tell sorry collin the strange organization 445 e. 9th st ny.ny.10009 212.505.3025

I just finished Eno's diary and he said that Howie B. went to him for advice on producing U2and actually said that there were "too many chefs in the kitchen". Either Gonzi (Fresh) is right on the $ or we've been reading the same books! ;) Anyone else care to comment on the new single? Haven't heard it yet... --t On Fri, 10 Jan 1997 12:25:17 -0800 "Gonzi (Fresh)" <fresh@linkonline.net> wrote:

quoted 9 lines there is an IDM/U2 connection......

> > there is an IDM/U2 connection...... > To many chefs in the kitchen.... > _____ > / ,-,_) > /,_) > (/ RESH > Live & Direct from the G-Spot, > Orange County, California, USA > http://www1.linkonline.net/fresh/fresh.htm

everyone should try biting their tongues sometimes and try to to refrain from ad hoc posting because of a perceived personal attack...tom w np: give peace a chance On Fri, 10 Jan 97 17:48 NFT Franz Eggshell <eggshell@ts.umu.se> writes:

quoted 82 lines Hey guys!

>Hey guys! > >What's this list coming to? >Lately I've recieved about 70-80 mails /day and _VERY_ few of these >have >actually contained any information worthwile. I mean, this orbital >thing, >It's fuckin hilarious... >The worst thing tho is that this list ain't no IDM discussion list >nomore. >People are discussing U2, Frank Sinatra, Miles Davis, Primal Scream, >David >Bowie, Prince n samba. People are selling stupid drummachines, and >discuss >what kind of headphones one should use. People are advertising for >their >computer-demo homepage. People are asking for good shops in >this-or-that area. >All this is to be justified with putting a "on: aphex twin; blue calx" >beneath >the signature. > >I won't let you think that I'm some kinda snowed under narrowminded >twat >sitting >with my computer complaining about all n everything. Actually i kinda >like >Sinatra n U2, and i'm pretty interested in knowing about different >turntables. >If i could, I'll prolly try to sell you a sequencer or two as well. > >But this is not what this list is about. > >Or am I wrong? > >I thank those who still post reviews, for-sale lists (i've gotten >myself some >really great music this way, at a cheap rate), information about new >releases, >all these kinda things. I admire ppl like Fresh, James Skilton and >Jason >McCollum >for actually diong something that matters. > >I think this list would work very well as some kind of forum between >us and the >people involved in the releases that we praise on this list but... Ken >Downing >left, Grant from Rephlex spoke about leaving, and I haven't seen a >post from >Warp-Greg for a long time... Lemme say this: I'm not surprised... > >Lately there's also been posts from people who didn't find this list >useful, >and If I recently subscribed I would've left faster than I came... Now >as it >happens to be, I've been on this list for some while and I know that >every now >and then intelligent and/or interesing posts pop up, I've also made >some great >frinds thanks to this list,but If I didn't have my free internet offer >I would >do this to myself. I wouldn't fucking plow through 80 senseless posts >a day. > >I believe the situation has to be thought over... Any suggestions of >what >to do? >Or is it only me feeling this way... Opinions anyone. > >yeah, and fear my spelling. > >Cheers, > Franz Enmark typ Levnadsklapare. > >On: The Black Dog: Music for Adverts. > --- franz enmark --- extra terrestrial --- > --- there's a sheep loose in the lane, --- > --- there's a goose asleep in the rain --- > --- http://tbm.scicom.se/plod -----od?---- > >

quoted 4 lines I just finished Eno's diary and he said that Howie B. went to him for

> I just finished Eno's diary and he said that Howie B. went to him for > advice on producing U2and actually said that there were "too many chefs > in the kitchen". Either Gonzi (Fresh) is right on the $ or we've been > reading the same books! ;)

He really said that? Weird...we must be on the same wavelength.

quoted 2 lines So what you're saying is "the problem with their trying to blend X with Y is

> So what you're saying is "the problem with their trying to blend X with Y is > that they DO end up blending X with Y." What's wrong with that?

The problem is they aren't blended, they are just laid one atop the other. They aren't taking elements from each and working them into a cohesive whole, they're taking everything from both and trying to throw them together at once and what they end up with is a loud mess. _____ / ,-,_) /,_) (/ RESH Live & Direct from the G-Spot, Orange County, California, USA http://www1.linkonline.net/fresh/fresh.htm

quoted 9 lines I heard the new U2 song, and it's fucking awful. The problem with these

> >I heard the new U2 song, and it's fucking awful. The problem with these > >rockers who try to start incorporating dance music elements into their > >songs is that they try to keep the rock elements in as well so it ALWAYS > >comes out sounding overproduced. The new U2 track is a perfect example. > >To many chefs in the kitchen.... > > You guys aren't listening, are you? > *sigh* >

Amen. It's kind of nice to see something different and at least halfway innovative being played on mainstream radio.

Franz Enmark <eggshell@ts.umu.se> wrote on Fri, 10 Jan 97 17:48 NFT:

quoted 9 lines Hey guys!

> Hey guys! > > What's this list coming to? > Lately I've recieved about 70-80 mails /day and _VERY_ few of these have > actually contained any information worthwile. I mean, this orbital thing, > It's fuckin hilarious... > The worst thing tho is that this list ain't no IDM discussion list nomore. > People are discussing U2, Frank Sinatra, Miles Davis, Primal Scream, David > Bowie, Prince n samba.

Don't know. If people like U2 collaborate with a producer like Howie B. or Primal Scream with Andy Weatherall or Bowie with A Guy Called Gerald, which are all relevant names to this list (I suppose), I don't see why one couldn't mention that on IDM. Then, Miles Davis and Prince have also played their part in the development on this style -- whether one wanted to admit that or not -- and many important artists representing IDM cite them as their influences. And Frank Sinatra then? Aww shucks, forget that senile old Mafioso (my humblest apologies to all Italians on this list), Scott Walker is the thing with what comes to crooning! ;) I see what you are trying to say, but I think IDM is not an insular thing and there are always all kinds of other musical phenomena living around it, or which it derives from, and as we see this music to grow more popular, I think more commercial crossovers will be inevitable. I don't know if it's good or bad, but in natural sciences that kind of thing is called "evolution"... You call me naive, if you want to but that's how I feel.

quoted 9 lines I won't let you think that I'm some kinda snowed under narrowminded twat

> I won't let you think that I'm some kinda snowed under narrowminded twat > sitting > with my computer complaining about all n everything. Actually i kinda like > Sinatra n U2, and i'm pretty interested in knowing about different turntables. > If i could, I'll prolly try to sell you a sequencer or two as well. > > But this is not what this list is about. > > Or am I wrong?

Well, if I should say something this, it is that the year is still young and there are not many new releases to discuss, so I understand people have to have something to talk about in the meanwhile, just to keep their tongues warm. Just wait until a new Aph/Rephlex release comes along and then it's again time for the typical fanboy drooling we are all so fond of...

quoted 2 lines I thank those who still post reviews, for-sale lists (i've gotten myself some

> I thank those who still post reviews, for-sale lists (i've gotten myself some > really great music this way, at a cheap rate),

On the other hand, there are some of us who might find the constant appearing of those sale lists not less than irritating. I'm not complaining myself though as long as I have that magical letter "D" on my keyboard.

quoted 4 lines information about new releases,

> information about new releases, > all these kinda things. I admire ppl like Fresh, James Skilton and Jason > McCollum > for actually diong something that matters.

Agreed.

quoted 2 lines I think this list would work very well as some kind of forum between us and

> I think this list would work very well as some kind of forum between us and > the people involved in the releases that we praise on this list but... Ken

Downing

quoted 1 line left,

> left,

Well, I admire Ken as a musician but what was amusing to me was his apparent incapability to receive any negative criticism concerning his works; sensitive creatures these artists or what? But like someone put it in the time: "If you can't stand the heat...".

quoted 2 lines Grant from Rephlex spoke about leaving, and I haven't seen a post from

> Grant from Rephlex spoke about leaving, and I haven't seen a post from > Warp-Greg for a long time... Lemme say this: I'm not surprised...

One thing I would like to say to everyone concerned is that, if you don't like the level of discussion, why not to do something to *improve it yourself*, and not to be content to comment it with the moody two-syllable answers or flames -- like some people on this list seem to be prone of? Don't get me wrong, Franz, because I really appreciate your opinions here and that you bothered to express them in a well thought-out way. Which is not always the case here though (those feeling guilty, send your insults directly to trerra@uta.fi).

quoted 11 lines Lately there's also been posts from people who didn't find this list useful,

> Lately there's also been posts from people who didn't find this list useful, > and If I recently subscribed I would've left faster than I came... Now as it > happens to be, I've been on this list for some while and I know that every > now and then intelligent and/or interesing posts pop up, I've also made > some great frinds thanks to this list,but If I didn't have my free internet > offer I would do this to myself. I wouldn't fucking plow through 80 > senseless posts a day. > > I believe the situation has to be thought over... Any suggestions of what > to do? > Or is it only me feeling this way... Opinions anyone.

I'm afraid these are the natural problems following being in a democratic discussion forum,where anyone can say what s/he wills... As the list gets larger and we get more different people in, it's understandable that there will be more variable subjects brought in to the discussion. Which, for me, is a good thing as long as the core of it stays on the electronic music. You can call me a laissez-faire libertarian or whatever, but I don't think it's bad people are expressing their interests in also various kinds of other things which may be only on the fringe of IDM. At least, it's from the fringe all kinds of cultural revolutions (I'm not talking about the 60's China here though ;) have always derived from, and purism, on the other hand, has always kept the things stagnant.

quoted 10 lines yeah, and fear my spelling.

> yeah, and fear my spelling. > > Cheers, > Franz Enmark typ Levnadsklapare. > > On: The Black Dog: Music for Adverts. > -- franz enmark --- extra terrestrial --- > --- there's a sheep loose in the lane, --- > --- there's a goose asleep in the rain --- > --- http://tbm.scicom.se/plod -----od?----

I don't know if any of this makes any sense or if it was what you wanted to hear, but at least my .02... En finne igen, as you Swedes (supposedly) are prone to say :) -- peace! ekku the maintainer of pHinnWeb - everything u ever wanted to know about Finnish techno scene but were too afraid of the reindeer trerra@uta.fi | http://www.uta.fi/~trerra | http://www.sci.fi/~phinnweb * The Best of '96 -> http://www.uta.fi/~trerra/bestof96.html

At 17.00 97-01-12 +0200, you wrote:

quoted 4 lines Don't know. If people like U2 collaborate with a producer like Howie B. or

>Don't know. If people like U2 collaborate with a producer like Howie B. or >Primal Scream with Andy Weatherall or Bowie with A Guy Called Gerald, which >are all relevant names to this list (I suppose), I don't see why one couldn't >mention that on IDM.

Yeah, sure, but then again, how hard will it then be to find connections...? I mean let's talk about madonna, who actually worked with bjork, and bjork worked with plaid. or maybe we could talk about therapy? on this list since they worked with sabres on a song (or was it two...?)... well you get my point. I believe that if this policy is to be kept this list will transform into something we could never imagine...;)

quoted 4 lines Then, Miles Davis and Prince have also played their

>Then, Miles Davis and Prince have also played their >part in the development on this style -- whether one wanted to admit that or >not -- and many important artists representing IDM cite them as their >influences.

yeah. sure. i agree. but however, you somewhat have to draw the line somewhere. we don't talk about strauss, do we? we don't talk about the beach boys either, even though they've both been important in different ways. without strauss and the beach boys = no kraftwerk as we know them, without kraftwerk, no aphex, bdp, autechre... i don't deny miles' influence on much of the music we're listening to today, but however, i belive that if a list like this is to work, the direction has to be a little bit more narrow than that.

quoted 4 lines Well, if I should say something this, it is that the year is still young and

>Well, if I should say something this, it is that the year is still young and >there are not many new releases to discuss, so I understand people have to >have something to talk about in the meanwhile, just to keep their tongues >warm.

if you don't have got something sensible to say, then shut up. of course everybody is to judge that for oneself, but i belive that many of the post here would without any doubt be better unposted. [...]

quoted 2 lines I'm not complaining

>I'm not complaining >myself though as long as I have that magical letter "D" on my keyboard.

well, can i post anything then? (i have this incredible ASCII drawing of my model railway...;) [...]

quoted 2 lines Which, for me,

>Which, for me, >is a good thing as long as the core of it stays on the electronic music.

well... the point is: it doesn't.

quoted 1 line You can call me a laissez-faire libertarian or whatever

>You can call me a laissez-faire libertarian or whatever

I don't call people names... but let's not et political, eh? :) The White Room is calling... - franz enmark --- extra terrestrial - - there's a sheep loose in the lane, - - there's a goose asleep in the rain - - http://tbm.scicom.se/plod ----------

At 05:43 AM 1/12/97 -0500, you wrote:

quoted 5 lines I heard the new U2 song, and it's fucking awful. The problem with these

>> >I heard the new U2 song, and it's fucking awful. The problem with these >> >rockers who try to start incorporating dance music elements into their >> >songs is that they try to keep the rock elements in as well so it ALWAYS >> >comes out sounding overproduced. The new U2 track is a perfect example. >> >To many chefs in the kitchen....

the moment i heard the new song i loved it (we are talking about discoteque, right?). but all ive heard from radio disc jockeys is bashing. i think its great when a band or artist ventures into trying something new. this is definitely a new sound for u2, and i guess perhaps long-time and devoted fans of theirs might be a little disturbed at the style change. but since ive always just liked them and never felt strongly one way or another about them, im more receptive to the change. and there is my nickel in the fountain for today... Goddess @ the gate ------------------------------------------------------ "last night i was inside of you... last night while i made love to you i saw the sun, the moon, the mountains and the rivers... i saw heaven when i made sweet love to you."