IDM Mailing Archive

here's a random observation from a past issue of, ironically, the wire (you'll get that in a second). the article is by simon reynolds, and discusses the resurgence of darkside hardstep (ed rush, trace, hype, doc scott, dillinja, etc) following the mainstream ascension of the dolphin trax of the bukem/reece/wax doctor set. whatever your take on the highly plastic and reductive analysis to which the discontinuous narrative of aesthetic innovation in jungle is put in the rest of the article, the following excerpt elaborates an interesting point about some artists often discussed on this list which i've not seen hazarded here before (my apologies if it has; i don't think i was subscribed when this article was first published): "...This phenomenon [the resurgence of '96 darkstep not much different from '93 darkstep] has led many 'non-scene' observers to reject Hardstep in favour of what they regard as the more avant-garde drum'n'bass tracks produced by such outsiders sch as Witchman, Luke Vibert (as Plug), or Richard James (with AFX's 'Hangable Auto Bulb' eEPs). But the point here is that these players are free to take greater liberties with Jungle's idiomatic motifs because they don't have to service DJs and dancers, because they don't belong to the community. And while their breakbeat elaborations sound astonishing, they lack the electric charge of relatively formulaic stuff made by Hardstep fundamentalists. When music is divorced from its subcultural context, it suffers from the meaning-deficit that vitiates all art-for-art's-sake activity. Listening to records such as the newly reissued Plug EPs, you sense that nothing's really *at stake* for the creator, let alone the consumer." discuss. sc

quoted 4 lines And while their breakbeat elaborations sound astonishing, they lack the electric >charg

> And while their breakbeat elaborations sound astonishing, they lack the electric >charge of relatively formulaic stuff made by Hardstep fundamentalists. Listening to >records such as the newly reissued Plug EPs, you sense that nothing's really *at stake* >for the creator, let alone the consumer." > > discuss. >

And what exactly is at stake for a bunch of drugged out clubbers smoking crack and freaking to hardstep? Give me a break. If you want to talk about jungle as a means of racial empowerment through music (ie hip-hop in the early eighties) sorry Wire, it never was nor could it be because the message (grandmaster flash where are you) in music without lyrics (I don't count those hardstep ragga samples or whatever) is always subjective. I think comparing the idm junglist to the hardstepers is a bit like comparing the monkees to the beatles. To the lay listener at times they may have sounded alike, but any music fan worth his stubble can easily tell who is making the REAL music. The Wire should know better. Peace out, _____ / ,-,_) /,_) (/ RESH Live & Direct from the G-Spot, Orange County, California, USA

quoted 4 lines almost amazing how in one paragraph you can denigrate people who listen to

> almost amazing how in one paragraph you can denigrate people who listen to > jungle made by non-rephlex artists as >>a bunch of drugged out clubbers smoking > crack and freaking to hardstep<< and to say that all hardstep is not >>the REAL > music.<<

When people start treating any given 'scene' as if it was some religious order than it's time to gets the pins out and let out some of the air. What I'm saying is there's nothing so sacred about the jungle scene that makes what the idmers are doing any less relevant. They are the ones making experimental music, trying new things, moving in new directions, instead of making making the same damn 12' with the same breaks over and over again. Which is not a bad thing really when you're in the mood for it, but I don't really put it on the same level with the constantly experimenting idmers who refuse to do the same.

quoted 2 lines sheesh you've become your parents my good man! perhaps tone down the hyperbole

> sheesh you've become your parents my good man! perhaps tone down the hyperbole > just a bit next time please.

Enjoying some spirited hyperbole, _____ / ,-,_) /,_) (/ RESH Live & Direct from the G-Spot, Orange County, California, USA

Sean Cooper wrote:

quoted 3 lines [...] these players are free to take greater liberties with Jungle's

> [...] these players are free to take greater liberties with Jungle's > idiomatic motifs because they don't have to service DJs and dancers, > because they don't belong to the community.

Fair enough, though there have been a number of people on the Breaks list who have mentioned dropping Plug and Squarepusher tracks at various events and getting a favorable crowd response. So I s'pose they aren't necessarily DJ-unfriendly...

quoted 7 lines And while their breakbeat

> And while their breakbeat > elaborations sound astonishing, they lack the electric charge of relatively > formulaic stuff made by Hardstep fundamentalists. When music is divorced > from its subcultural context, it suffers from the meaning-deficit that > vitiates all art-for-art's-sake activity. Listening to records such as the > newly reissued Plug EPs, you sense that nothing's really *at stake* for the > creator, let alone the consumer."

To me, Plug, Squarepusher, AFX, Witchman, et al have no sort of 'meaning-deficit' as their work becomes much more of an 'emotional' statement rather than just an arrangement of fast rhythms. Not that an Ed Rush tune doesn't have much 'emotional' content, but it doesn't have the same impact as 'intelligent' DnB. I also find most of the avant-garde stuff to 'rock out' more than club-oriented stuff in many cases *because* it is more sophisticated musically. GD

quoted 5 lines To me, Plug, Squarepusher, AFX, Witchman, et al have no sort of

> To me, Plug, Squarepusher, AFX, Witchman, et al have no sort of > 'meaning-deficit' as their work becomes much more of an 'emotional' > statement rather than just an arrangement of fast rhythms. Not that an > Ed Rush tune doesn't have much 'emotional' content, but it doesn't have > the same impact as 'intelligent' DnB. I also find most of the

I'm very interested how this higher emotional content is defined. I tend to think that the emotional content of any record is highly variable, and solely dependant on the listeners response to it. The emotions that Squarepusher records invoke range from happiness, boredom, irritation, indifference and even aggression ("PUT THAT OFF!! IT'S RUBBISH!"), depending on who of my friends you ask. The same probably goes for Ed Rush records. And I'm sure my mom would consider *any* d'n'b track an emotionless collection of sounds. To me, to say that a certain genre has a higher emotional content in general is just like people in the art-world, all very excited about this 'meaningful' new artist, being condescending to anyone who says "I look at it and I don't like it". It's elitist and snobbish. Maarten

Maarten D. Schemer wrote:

quoted 9 lines To me, Plug, Squarepusher, AFX, Witchman, et al have no sort of

> > To me, Plug, Squarepusher, AFX, Witchman, et al have no sort of > > 'meaning-deficit' as their work becomes much more of an 'emotional' > > statement rather than just an arrangement of fast rhythms. Not that an > > Ed Rush tune doesn't have much 'emotional' content, but it doesn't have > > the same impact as 'intelligent' DnB. I also find most of the > > I'm very interested how this higher emotional content is defined. I tend to > think that the emotional content of any record is highly variable, and > solely dependant on the listeners response to it.

Maybe it's the terminology then. If you don't like 'emotional', fine - maybe 'presence' or 'dynamism' is a better word. Here's how I look at it: a lot of 'dancefloor' tracks tend to be made in a cookie-cutter sort of way - i.e. built with plain old recycled breaks pieced together in . This allows for a lot less dynamics in a piece, which is why I say certain pieces make more of an impression than others. Take the way amen breaks are manipulated in "Cheesy (Amen Mix)" from Plug 2 - although the same base beat can be found in many a hardstep or techstep tune, it is used in a much more 'dynamic' way, almost like playing an acoustical instrument. An additional element of this dynamism comes from pacing and structure. For example, Dillinja has a great sense of pacing and timing - this means his tracks are more dynamic because his beats flow together more smoothly.

quoted 4 lines To me, to say that a certain genre has a higher emotional content in general

> To me, to say that a certain genre has a higher emotional content in general > is just like people in the art-world, all very excited about this > 'meaningful' new artist, being condescending to anyone who says "I look at > it and I don't like it". It's elitist and snobbish.

By 'emotional content' I don't mean that the emotion behind the tune (what the producer of the track had in mind when creating it) is not valid, it's just that it may or may not be conveyed as well. Note that when mentioning Ed Rush, I said "not that an Ed Rush tune doesn't have much 'emotional' content" - I like the tone and atmosphere of his tracks, but think that the emotional impact of a tune can be greater if the technique permits it. GD

21st Century Soul wrote:

quoted 7 lines To me, Plug, Squarepusher, AFX, Witchman, et al have no sort of

> > To me, Plug, Squarepusher, AFX, Witchman, et al have no sort of > > 'meaning-deficit' as their work becomes much more of an 'emotional' > > statement rather than just an arrangement of fast rhythms. Not that an > > Ed Rush tune doesn't have much 'emotional' content, but it doesn't have > > the same impact as 'intelligent' DnB. I also find most of the > > avant-garde stuff to 'rock out' more than club-oriented stuff in many > > cases *because* it is more sophisticated musically.

quoted 4 lines i'm not going to enter this ridiculous debate (sr had some points,

> i'm not going to enter this ridiculous debate (sr had some points, > though), but again (as i've said before) you either get it or you don't. > Ed Rush, Plug, Roni Size, Squarepusher, Dillinja, Aphex and Doc Scott > have *all* made incredibly emotional records using trad and non-trad

"Getting it" is a relative term. I like each of the artists you mention, (Dillinja in particular), but I like some more than others. Is that a crime against the great law of jungle? I believe original point of the article Sean Cooper quoted was that "getting it" didn't include so-called 'intelligent' artists, that the tunes associated with the 'scene' were more valid in some way than the listening-oriented (non-dancefloor) D&B producers. My tastes run contrary to that, because a lot of the 'intelligent' tunes have much more wicked and cunning beats.

quoted 2 lines styles. To refute the power of an Ed Rush record is to profess your lack

> styles. To refute the power of an Ed Rush record is to profess your lack > of real jungle knowledge. It's not even down to taste. It's pure snobbery.

It's only snobbery to you because you happen to like Ed Rush - are the people who dis the Jungle Sky comp a bunch of snobs? Sure, if you think that some D&B artists are better than others. Anyway I'd say that Ed Rush is much better than 95% of the stuff out there on some of the comps, so I'd separate the good 'dancefloor' stuff from the crap. GD

In a message dated 96-12-10 01:05:23 EST, you write:

quoted 2 lines Listening to records such as the

> Listening to records such as the > newly reissued Plug EPs, you sense that nothing's really *at stake* for

the

quoted 1 line creator, let alone the consumer."

> creator, let alone the consumer."

Urgh, more crap from an over-inflated nerd. People like this can't get over their literature-based upbringing and education, where everything has to be interpreted in a historical, cultural and literal context, like pieces of The Big Jigsaw Puzzle. Most of them are failed musicians anyway, so ignore them. This one sounds like a fucking Nazi. Cheerio! NP - nlogax - Boards Of Canada (FUCK!!!!!)