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(idm) Re: CD Dex

4 messages · 3 participants · spans 1 day · search this subject
1996-12-05 16:18(idm) Re: CD Dex
└─ 1996-12-05 19:09Niels P. Mayer Re: (idm) Re: CD Dex
1996-12-05 19:32Re: (idm) Re: CD Dex
└─ 1996-12-05 20:59Lazlo Nibble Re: (idm) Re: CD Dex
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1996-12-05 16:18storm@power1.powernet.co.ukWeeZ asked. > What is the best CD mixing device, offcourse thinking >about quality/price??
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Thu, 5 Dec 1996 16:18:33 GMT
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(idm) Re: CD Dex
permalink · <v01530500aecca6532c72@[195.60.5.12]>
WeeZ asked.
quoted 3 lines What is the best CD mixing device, offcourse thinking> What is the best CD mixing device, offcourse thinking >about quality/price?? I heard the JB Systems CD Devices sucked bitgtime... >Let me know please...
Denons m8. Any of the Denon dual deck systems. The 2500F is very special with a jog/shottle for finding cue points, much better than the ffwd and rew buttons on their 2000F MK-2 I use. The denons sound quality is easily better than any of the other systems I've used. But if your a features man have a look at the Pioneer CDJ-II single deck systems. These allow you to change a tracks tempo without altering it's pitch (real time time stretching in other words) and conversely allow you to change the pitch without altering the speed. The dedicated mixer you can get with these has all sorts of other nifty stuff, BPM counter on each source, Phaser/flanger and other effects on pot wheels. Loadsa stuff, it basically beat matches 4 you. However not only is the pioneer system hideously expensive, the sound quality is truly dire. When you do time stretch, the whole audio signal drops noticeably. So you end up using your spare hand to bring that channels level up as you slow the track down. Anyway. If cash is a problem. Second hand Denon systems are going at good prices, the 2000F MK2 I use I saw recently for sale at 500.000 UKP. There are a lot of cheap dual systems about at the moment. I heard good things about the audiolab pair which came to only 400.oo UKP. Apparently the single joystick control is amazing to use, but then the buttons on my Denons (particulary the pitch bend) respond to the agression with which you press them. the harder you press them, the more drastic the change, the lighter you press them, the more slight the change. The other good thing I heard about the audiolabs was that it has two cables to the transport system, therefore things happen more quickly, especially important when setting up loops. - Stray.
1996-12-05 19:09Niels P. Mayer> The dedicated mixer you can > get with these has all sorts of other nifty stuff, BPM cou
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Niels P. Mayer
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Thu, 05 Dec 96 11:09:39 -0800
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Re: (idm) Re: CD Dex
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(idm) Re: CD Dex
permalink · <199612051909.LAA09236@netcom4.netcom.com>
quoted 4 lines The dedicated mixer you can> The dedicated mixer you can > get with these has all sorts of other nifty stuff, BPM counter on each > source, Phaser/flanger and other effects on pot wheels. Loadsa stuff, it > basically beat matches 4 you.
That's bullshit. It doesn't beatmatch for you. It can display the BPM in two channels simultaneously, you still control the dials, there's plenty of human interaction involved. I am thoroughly sick of people telling me "oh that sounds very good and everything's perfectly beatmatched, but you're not a real DJ because your CD players are beat matching for you!" There's more to beatmatching than making sure that both channels are at the same BPM. For one, 124.5 BPM is different from 124 BPM and you can only see fractional BPM's on the "second" beat counter. For two, a BPM counter is pretty stupid and can get fooled by different kinds of music. A 160BPM jungle track will occasionally show up as 80BPM and sometimes at 120BPM. You still need to use your ears. The beat counter is a nice feature, and it can let you do a mix of two unfamiliar tracks a bit more quickly than you could without it, but that's it. For simple and standard music sources (don't expect it to be useful for beatmatching music in 6/8 for example), the BPM counter will let you take two trax at different BPM's and get them in "the same range" but you've gotta do the final beatmatching, and you've gotta make sure that the phases are correct; even if the sources indicate the same BPM on the beatcounter, and you've got the phase aligned, it doesn't mean the tracks will actually segue seamlessly. It's the rhythm, stupid. You statement about "beatmatching for you" is kinda like telling someone with antilock brakes (ABS) on their car that "it does the driving for you".... It's just a tool you can use to avoid getting into a (train)wreck. You still have to know how to drive.
quoted 2 lines However not only is the pioneer system> However not only is the pioneer system > hideously expensive, the sound quality is truly dire.
I disagree. The sound quality on mine is quite good. Better sounding than my supposedly good-sounding Sony "ES" series CD player. I've found the denons to sound pretty awful myself, but then again, perhaps it wasn't driving a good amp or decent speakers.
quoted 3 lines When you do time> When you do time > stretch, the whole audio signal drops noticeably. So you end up using your > spare hand to bring that channels level up as you slow the track down.
I haven't noticed this on mine. Of course, if you're time streching a track at -10%, it is going to sound a little weird. If you knew anything about how simple the DSP algorithms are that do this kind of time-stretching are, you'd understand that it's impossible to do extreme time stretching well. I've never heard a time stretching algorithm that doesn't sound weird "at the limits". However, it doesn't sound as noticably warped when you put it to +10%, and it's pretty reasonable within +/- 5% ranges. And of course, the time stretching isn't REQUIRED. You can turn it off very easily, and make the vocals sound like chipmunks if that's your thing. I personally am very satisfied with my Pioneer CDJ500mkII and the matching M500 mixer. I paid $2000.00 for the whole system, which isn't that far out of line with the Denons and an equivalent high-end mixer. The worst thing about the Denons, IMHO, is that they have a error-prone and braindamaged user-interface. I find them absolytely god-awful to use. But that's just my opinion. I bought the Pioneers CDJ500mkII's because they were the first CD mixer decks I used that actually felt comfortable to mix with. =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= == Niels Mayer -- http://www.eit.com/~mayer -- mayer@netcom.com == == When yer swimming in a creek and an eel bites yer cheek, that's a moray!== =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= -----BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- Version: 2.6.3 mQCNAzJKOnMAAAEEAMD9U5YD2wiMJU7vUYq1uqBB9M2sf9CuOhHRM5oYTygDMQGP Ot928KtN3/2jHlYSmGHceZZYtCUdISievlNPD5+JgrHCtU3rFfvzWJuMsODGSoo1 X3csx0aEvAfkHh+fHWs04iU7Sm5t8fp31PP5DPf9KEJIsX2Y63ZBlPtktX29AAUR tCFOaWVscyBQLiBNYXllciA8bWF5ZXJAbmV0Y29tLmNvbT6JAJUDBRAySjpzdkGU +2S1fb0BAWT1BACH1GWBrkYufLb2KN5nyqB5r2TyqeqgNirOSpuQT9a4ozFAqSiM M8k+w+uj+VAMwugKdz9kL41thUCY+FI/jv4SPQzbwkY2mJs80YLJEqWA0OKUcI2F naYvMJo2zKS9jjAEX6hT5No4ZUK9hS8sREcHI2twdrJ66zExV3s6xUlSUQ== =RUx1 -----END PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK-----
1996-12-05 19:32storm@power1.powernet.co.ukto that sad piece of shit Niels P mayer : I am aware about beatmatching you offensive litt
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Niels P. Mayer
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Thu, 5 Dec 1996 19:32:40 GMT
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Re: (idm) Re: CD Dex
permalink · <v01530500aeccd2ca3ac1@[195.60.5.11]>
to that sad piece of shit Niels P mayer : I am aware about beatmatching you offensive little cunt, I beatmatch 2 1210's and Denons quite merrily every fucking evening. I don't need my hand held by BPM counters, and find them extremely off putting. For the reasons you listed. I also know about the limitations and negative effects of timestretching. Why is IDM so full of self-righteous opinionated wankers like you. Dickheads who fly off the handle insulting complete strangers with no knowledge about the possible knowledge of their targets. If you haven't noticed the drop in quality then you're hearing is not quite as impressive as you imagine. Or maybe I'm a bit more of a purist than you, which probably comes from having an Alpha 5 CD player at home going through a custom built Magnum Amp system. So don't witter on senseless bollocks that I don't know a quality PA when I hear one. My posting was just my own general opinions on various decks that I have tried. I feel no need to get technical or insultive, I am not that insecure. Hope your happy with you Pioneers, I prefer a DAC with a little more quality and a lot less cheap bells and whistles. I have seen what happens to the signal on an osciloscope when you change the pitch on a Pioneer, and I've seen what happens on Denons. I own Denons. Enuff said. Features man = Wanker. Because a feature is just something unnessecary (and mostly quality debilatating) between the sound recording and your ear. You are a very sad twat. Stray.
1996-12-05 20:59Lazlo Nibble> to that sad piece of shit Niels P mayer : > > I am aware about beatmatching you offensiv
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Lazlo Nibble
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Thu, 5 Dec 1996 13:59:38 -0700 (MST)
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Re: (idm) Re: CD Dex
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Re: (idm) Re: CD Dex
permalink · <199612052059.NAA25097@slug.swcp.com>
quoted 9 lines to that sad piece of shit Niels P mayer :> to that sad piece of shit Niels P mayer : > > I am aware about beatmatching you offensive little cunt... > > Why is IDM so full of self-righteous opinionated wankers like you. > > Features man = Wanker. > > You are a very sad twat.
quoted 1 line I feel no need to get technical or insultive, I am not that insecure.> I feel no need to get technical or insultive, I am not that insecure.
I think your confidence in your own lack of insecurity is sadly misplaced. -- ::: Lazlo (lazlo@swcp.com; http://www.swcp.com/lazlo)