IDM Mailing Archive

Kraftwerk. Computer World. Thirty-four Minutes. Thirty-eight Seconds. While I haven't heard the new RDJ, I certainly won't be judging the quality of the release on its *length*. If you really think it's too short, play it twice. :-) -- Adam J Weitzman --- Individual, Inc. --- weitzman@individual.com -- -- VISIT US AT: http://www.individual.com -- -- Jeff George, Atlanta Falcons QB, on refusing a trade to Seattle: -- -- "Over the past few years I have made some mistakes, and I just -- -- wanted to make sure I made the right one this time." --

quoted 7 lines Kraftwerk.

> Kraftwerk. > Computer > World. > Thirty-four > Minutes. > Thirty-eight > Seconds.

And what of it? It was released in the pre-CD era. So now I get to buy an old album's worth of music for 1 1/2 to 2 times the price? Phuque *that*, girlfriend. I suggest some historical perspective. Older list members, go ask your Dads about when the switchover from 78's to 33 1/3 took place. Almost all of the 78's in my parents' meagre music collection (yes, I is Olde) were double or triple-vinyl disks. Tell me that somebody who released a 33 1/3 LP that had a single 78's worth of music back then wouldn't have been similarly crucified. Nobody says a record has to be pushing the 74-80 minute limit. But the medium costs more for us poor slags (read: end consumers) to buy. If you want to release a 32 minute album, by all means, go ahead. But don't ask the punters to pay full price for it. Music costs *far* too much these days as it is. (The US $9.99 that buys me one lousy import 12" now used to buy me two full new albums.) - Greg

Weitzman wrote:

quoted 7 lines Kraftwerk.

>Kraftwerk. >Computer >World. >Thirty-four >Minutes. >Thirty-eight >Seconds

er - cd's were not around when this was first released:)

quoted 2 lines While I haven't heard the new RDJ, I certainly won't be judging the

>While I haven't heard the new RDJ, I certainly won't be judging the >quality of the release on its *length*.

quoted 1 line If you really think it's too short, play it twice.

>If you really think it's too short, play it twice.

Tangerine Dream 35 Albums all 2 Hours Long we could go on forever like this but our final word is thus: its not about size - its about *content* and yes - you can't judge an album until you've heard it sm @ 4th world *cutting edge mail order* http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/4thworld/

quoted 3 lines While I haven't heard the new RDJ, I certainly won't be judging the

>>While I haven't heard the new RDJ, I certainly won't be judging the >>quality of the release on its *length*. >>If you really think it's too short, play it twice.

Funny. I make up for the length of INKEY$ by playing it six or seven times in a row. It's intensity is far more important than the length. .grant.h.horne

In a message dated 22-10-96 15:21:21, you write:

quoted 4 lines we could go on forever like this

>we could go on forever like this >but our final word is thus: >its not about size - its about *content* and yes - you can't judge >an album until you've heard it

Well, good, you probably don't have to pay for your records, or not much anyway. And is anyone actually criticising the album? If anything, the music is being praised, in that we like it so much we want more of it for our money! Cheerio! NP - This Can Robotic - Vibert/Simmonds

Re: length of RDJ...

quoted 4 lines we could go on forever like this

> we could go on forever like this > but our final word is thus: > its not about size - its about *content* and yes - you can't judge > an album until you've heard it

Trouble is at this price/length ratio it's likely some people will choose *not* to hear it... _____________________________________________________ Jezz @ http://homepages.enterprise.net/jezz/ Roland D-110 Yamaha YS-100 Casio CZ-101 Boss SE-50 C-Labs AWE-32 Tascam 4 Track Tascam 8ch Mixer _____________________________________________________

You know, this whole argument is about as silly as my roommate getting upset over letter-boxed movies on video/cable because as he says, "they're not using the whole screen." Get over the format and listen to the content. People buy CD singles all the time and those are the same damn discs as a full length. All you have to do is imagine CD's are of limitless length and then you'll listen to the music and not get all hot and bothered about how long it is. I think the Kraftwerk analogy is pretty decent. Those guys spent 2-3 years on a 30-40min release. It's all about quality and not quantity. If you want a bargain for your music then listen to the damn radio. It's free after all. _ -robert | |___ ____ ____ _____ | |_ \ / -__/ / _/ | _ \ __________ |_____/ \___\ |_| | |__/ / -studio- \ _________________________________ |_| http://icse1.ucsd.edu/~rcurlee/ \

On Wed, 23 Oct 1996, Robot wrote:

quoted 4 lines I think the Kraftwerk analogy is pretty decent. Those guys spent 2-3 years

> I think the Kraftwerk analogy is pretty decent. Those guys spent 2-3 years > on a 30-40min release. It's all about quality and not quantity. If you > want a bargain for your music then listen to the damn radio. It's free > after all.

I can see just how shallow some people can be for bitching about the length of CDs. However, having heard the Bochum Welt and Aphex Twin's new "Richard D James" I can easily say that they don't warrant themselves as filling, satisfying albums. Though I can't really comment on the Bochum Welt, (it's great stuff, just want more of it) the new Aphex Twin should have been broken down with the "Boy/Girl" ep into two singles, like the way Warp dealt with the Ventolin and On singles. If you do the math, (I didn't) I suspect it conforms to the British single rules. I recognize that Aphex Twin has tons of material unreleased. I feel that it's entirely up to him what is released and what isn't. Maybe when he croaks, Rykodisc will license all the unreleased material from the estate of Richard James, and release it as a 20 CD box set hailing Aphex Twin as the Frank Zappa of techno. :) Lame Thread Prevention in Effect: Aaron Michelson --------------------------------------------------------------------- aw-teck'r (autechre) "Everything you Know is Wrong." For reviews, interviews, art & trash *UPDATED* http://www.io.org/~amichel/ amichel@io.org

On Wed, 23 Oct 1996 20:16:21 -0400 (EDT), you wrote:

quoted 5 lines on the Bochum Welt, (it's great stuff, just want more of it) the new

>on the Bochum Welt, (it's great stuff, just want more of it) the new >Aphex Twin should have been broken down with the "Boy/Girl" ep into two >singles, like the way Warp dealt with the Ventolin and On singles. If >you do the math, (I didn't) I suspect it conforms to the British single >rules.

They certainly doesn't - too many tracks. In fact, bizarrely, Boy/Girl did get into the National UK (CIN) charts (in at #64), despite the fact it was ineligable for the above reason. g

On Thu, 24 Oct 1996 09:49:25 GMT, you wrote:

quoted 12 lines On Wed, 23 Oct 1996 20:16:21 -0400 (EDT), you wrote:

>On Wed, 23 Oct 1996 20:16:21 -0400 (EDT), you wrote: > > >>on the Bochum Welt, (it's great stuff, just want more of it) the new >>Aphex Twin should have been broken down with the "Boy/Girl" ep into two >>singles, like the way Warp dealt with the Ventolin and On singles. If >>you do the math, (I didn't) I suspect it conforms to the British single >>rules. > >They certainly doesn't - too many tracks. In fact, bizarrely, Boy/Girl >did get into the National UK (CIN) charts (in at #64), despite the >fact it was ineligable for the above reason.

And then it goes in at #5 in the Indie (CIN) *Album* chart. Like say, bizarre. g.

On Wed, 23 Oct 1996, Aaron Michelson wrote:

quoted 3 lines I recognize that Aphex Twin has tons of material unreleased. I feel that

> > I recognize that Aphex Twin has tons of material unreleased. I feel that > it's entirely up to him what is released and what isn't.

Well, as anyone who makes electronic music knows, every time you lash up a few synths and hit 'record' you can call it a track. Mr. James obviously employs some quality control -- many of those billion tracks in the DAT shoebox probably shouldn't see the light of day. You might not like some (or most) of what he puts out, but I've heard nearly everything he's done, and there's always something going on there. Unlike many many MANY records I hear. --------------------------------------------------------------------- "Stop thinking, and end your problems" -- Tao Te Ching Home Page, featuring Reagan on Black Velvet, the EMP Compilation CD, samples of my music, etc http://soli.inav.net/~kent/ Kent Williams kent@inav.net CADSI 2651 Crosspark Road Coralville IA 52241 (319) 338 6053 (home) (319) 626 6700 x 219 (work) (319) 626 3489 (fax)

On Thu, 24 Oct 1996, Eric Frans wrote:

quoted 3 lines It seems like these short CDs are being released by artists who have

> It seems like these short CDs are being released by artists who have > quite a bit of material already realesed, i.e. Aphex Twin, Bochum Welt, > and now Seefeel. I wonder if these artists would feel so eager to release

uh...i thought the new sefeel was going to be an EP type thing. considering that it was originally going to be an EP (i thought) and it's posthumous (?), i dunno if that's quite fair... [grievous] [who personally would've released "boy/girl" & "richard d. james" as one action-packed CD. but that's just me.]

On Fri, 25 Oct 1996, grievous iv - gymkata! wrote: } On Thu, 24 Oct 1996, Eric Frans wrote: } > It seems like these short CDs are being released by artists who have } > quite a bit of material already realesed, i.e. Aphex Twin, Bochum Welt, } > and now Seefeel. I wonder if these artists would feel so eager to release } } uh...i thought the new sefeel was going to be an EP type thing. } considering that it was originally going to be an EP (i thought) and it's } posthumous (?), i dunno if that's quite fair... Well, maybe it is listed as an EP, but I'm just going by this review that was posted earlier today, which called _CH-Vox_ an "album": ---- Date: Thu, 24 Oct 1996 06:55:54 -0400 From: "sm@4th World" <106056.2751@compuserve.com> To: I Dance Madly <idm@hyperreal.com> Subject: (idm) See-Feel - CH-Vox review See - Feel - CH-Vox (Rephlex Cat036) 33 mins 'Utreat (Compute)' opens the album 2 reverberating icy notes stuck like a hammer to the anvil , underpinned by distant fleeting washes of texture. 'E-Hix' fades in with cut up collages of sound rising and falling in amongst themselves , whilst what sounds like atonal trumpets chime out an ominious fanfare , the sound of industry grinding to a halt 'Ch-Vox' is a tonal composistion which conjours up images of barren desolete wastelands and decaying ruins , the sound builds up and then fades away to silence before creeping out of hiding again..scary 'Hive' introduces a creaking metallic loop with a whiplash beat and thudding bass , disembodied vocals sounding like shamanic chants whirl about giving the track a dark intensity. 'Ashdeacon' - tinkling water chimes and a bell being struck deep from the bowels of the earth combine with flashes of melody , mourful but yet serene and never loses that threatening edge. 'Net' closes the album , cracked signals , drifting shifting tonal shapes and one of the first interjections of rhythm on the whole album - what sounds like pitched down franticly tapped morse code, then dying off into the void. very mood orientated with the emphasic more on classical style composition this reminds me of the work of Paul Shutze, and that is a compliment in itself , an album to let your imagination lose in..... verdict - very challenging , but worth the perseverance.. sm @ 4th world uk *cutting edge mail order* http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/4thworld/ ---- I guess I was wrong to lump it in the "30-32" minute category since apparently it's 33 minutes. Regardless, if it is an album it can safely be called "short". Hopefully, the quality will make up for the brevity. I'm interested to see what the CD will cost, however. ________________E_r_i_c___F_r_a_n_s________________ [mail]--------------------->franse@engr.arizona.edu [web]->http://www.azstarnet.com/~slyons/exoticblend

Robot wrote:

quoted 3 lines You know, this whole argument is about as silly as my roommate getting upset

> You know, this whole argument is about as silly as my roommate getting upset > over letter-boxed movies on video/cable because as he says, "they're not > using the whole screen."

How is that a silly argument? Us old folks with poor vision would like to be able to see the whole thing, not squished down into some tiny quadrant that's hard to see. Aspect ratio be damned.

quoted 2 lines Get over the format and listen to the content. People buy CD singles all

> Get over the format and listen to the content. People buy CD singles all > the time and those are the same damn discs as a full length.

And - guess what - THEY COST LESS! Imagine that ...

quoted 2 lines All you have to do is imagine CD's are of limitless length and then you'll

> All you have to do is imagine CD's are of limitless length and then you'll > listen to the music and not get all hot and bothered about how long it is.

Unfortunately, they aren't. Deal with reality (and your wallet) please.

quoted 2 lines I think the Kraftwerk analogy is pretty decent. Those guys spent 2-3 years

> I think the Kraftwerk analogy is pretty decent. Those guys spent 2-3 years > on a 30-40min release. It's all about quality and not quantity.

And gee, 30-40 minute releases were pretty optimal for single-vinyl LPs then. I recently threw back the 12" of Carl Craig's "Bug In The Bassbin" because, even though it was a killer track, it was a one-sided 12" (gee, half the medium's capacity, sounds familiar) and yet it was still full price. I do not feel like paying US $10 for one track, no matter what the "quality". Let's make this a reductio ad absurdum: If anyone came out with a CD that was 15 minutes long and contained 10 tracks, all averaging 1:30 or so in length, and the shops charged full price, would you still say the same thing? The issue is not, for me, the length. (Goes into closet, blows off 10 layers of dust from his Ramones "Leave Home" and Wire's "Pink Flag" ... ) It's the fact that full price is being asked for a recording which is merely half the medium's standard length. - Greg

Robot wrote:

quoted 2 lines Get over the format and listen to the content. People buy CD singles all

>Get over the format and listen to the content. People buy CD singles all >the time and those are the same damn discs as a full length.

er yeah but like cd's singles that last 30 minutes retail @ 1.99, albums that last 30 mins retail @ 11.99 - makes sense? - I don't think so , FSOL latest cd single lasted not a kick in the arse off 30 minutes and only retailed for 1.99 , so what's the difference between this and an album - purely cosmetic?, or is somebody somewhere laughing their heads off? I think a quote from Ken Downie is relevant and appropriate at this time "I think it's all over for pop music because you can't sell things to people any more. They can just phone up and get it for nothing so do it that way"

This thread has gone on too lomg and it could go on for days or weeks longer. I understand the argument but does it need to be a public forum? Why not just organise a boycott the releases that are deemed too short? Steve