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(idm) classical training

3 messages · 3 participants · spans 4 days · search this subject
1996-10-15 19:27Cathryn Siegal (idm) classical training
├─ 1996-10-19 16:51Darren T. Boss Re: (idm) classical training
└─ 1996-10-19 16:56H James Harkins Re: (idm) classical training
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1996-10-15 19:27Cathryn Siegal>> I'm curious to know if there are any 'classically trained' idmers >> out there, 'cos al
From:
Cathryn Siegal
To:
Date:
Tue, 15 Oct 1996 19:27:07 +0000
Subject:
(idm) classical training
permalink · <1366714869-2168064@lserver.math.csuohio.edu>
quoted 4 lines I'm curious to know if there are any 'classically trained' idmers>> I'm curious to know if there are any 'classically trained' idmers >> out there, 'cos almost everyone seems to come from a non-music >> background. I'm hoping it's not because musical 'training' closes >> peoples' ears/minds...
quoted 4 lines Perhaps it's not the classical training as such that is the issue>Perhaps it's not the classical training as such that is the issue >here but a certain kind of personality who is drawn to it. Perhaps >their ears are already closed and they found a club that perpetuates >what they want to believe.
i have often heard ppl who play guitar, piano, bass, etc., say that they don't like electronic music because it isn't "real" sound that is being produced, and that sound lacks the quality that "real" instruments possess. fair enough. after all, it's my understanding (i'm not an historian or anything, this is actually hearsay), that a lot of the electronic instruments were made so that bands could essentially practise anywhere w/o having to move large pieces of equipment. (e.g. drum machines& bass machines) although probably not limited to just that. the point is that they were considered substitutes. so naturally when someone made a really cool electronic tune it may have been regarded as childsplay. it's been my experience that the more ppl come into contact with and become familiar with electonic music, the more they'll recognize it as being legitimate in it's own right. wether or not it appeals to their own personal taste. along the same lines i wanted to say that i also believe that just because one is trained in music to any degree, it doesn't follow that one is also creative with those tools they now know how to use so well. so you could have ppl who are making music who know their way around, oh i don't know, say an engineering studio, for example, backwards and forwards and don't have a creative bone in their bodies. it doesn't mean they can't appreciate what is creative. and there are ppl who are self-taught and can knock you on your ass with what they've made. i know some ppl who are expamples of both and i can definitly attest to the fact that the self-taught-knock-you-on-your-ass approach has taken the lead in terms of success by a very wide margin. a fine example of the tortoise beating the hare. Cathryn Sunday sundayc@math.csuohio.edu
1996-10-19 16:51Darren T. BossI would just like to say that I was brought into listening to electronic music through cla
From:
Darren T. Boss
To:
Date:
Sat, 19 Oct 1996 11:51:40 -0500 (CDT)
Subject:
Re: (idm) classical training
Reply to:
(idm) classical training
permalink · <Pine.SOL.3.91.961019113322.28545A-100000@pollux.cc.umanitoba.ca>
I would just like to say that I was brought into listening to electronic music through classical channels. It started many years ago when I listened to a show called Two New Hours on the CBC radio network (the show still exists and is still amazing). They play 20th century new music, post-classical, music by non-dead composers, whatever you want to call that type of music. A good chunk of the music they played was electrocoustic music, John Adams etc. It took quite a few years for myself to find out that there was a greater volume of electronic music out there besides the generic dance music crap. It took me even longer to find out there were music stores in my city that sold stuff like that. Now there is a dedicated store in my city which caters to the electronic music enthusiast from dancefloor to IDM to ambient to noise. This isn't to say I've lost my love for classical/post-classical music, especially labels like New Albion, Point Music and ECM. I can't remember how this thread started, was it something like "What do classically trained musicians think of IDM" or "electronic music in general". I've got more to say but I think I'll save it for another post.
1996-10-19 16:56H James Harkins> >> I'm curious to know if there are any 'classically trained' idmers > >> out there, 'co
From:
H James Harkins
To:
Date:
Sat, 19 Oct 1996 12:56:03 -0400 (EDT)
Subject:
Re: (idm) classical training
Reply to:
(idm) classical training
permalink · <Pine.SOL.3.91.961019125305.3668C-100000@carr2.acpub.duke.edu>
quoted 3 lines I'm curious to know if there are any 'classically trained' idmers> >> I'm curious to know if there are any 'classically trained' idmers > >> out there, 'cos almost everyone seems to come from a non-music > >> background.
Here's one (who just joined the list last week...). I'm in my fourth year of grad school studying music composition. I discovered intelligent dance about a year and a half ago when I picked up Orbital 2 and a strange little comp called "Ethnotechno" with a handful of killer tracks on it (namely, Ken Ishii (Utu)'s N428 [*wow*!!!], Mere Mortals' Ethnologik, Juno Reactor's Alash, and one by Sandoz whose title slips my mind at the moment)--also plan to worship and adore Underworld until the day I die...
quoted 2 lines I'm hoping it's not because musical 'training' closes> >> I'm hoping it's not because musical 'training' closes > >> peoples' ears/minds...
I have not found this to be the case, at least not nearly as much as I expected. Shortly after coming across smart dance music, I decided that I needed to start making this stuff myself, because it's so much *cooler* (to my own ears, I mean) and has a broader social base than the music I had been making. To my surprise, I actually found a lot of support for this direction. Granted, there are those in the department who don't get it, but when your Ph.D. advisor is behind you, that counts for a lot.
quoted 1 line i have often heard ppl who play guitar, piano, bass, etc., say that> i have often heard ppl who play guitar, piano, bass, etc., say that
they don't
quoted 1 line like electronic music because it isn't "real" sound that is being> like electronic music because it isn't "real" sound that is being
produced, and
quoted 1 line that sound lacks the quality that "real" instruments possess. fair enough.> that sound lacks the quality that "real" instruments possess. fair enough.
I'm not sure I think that's "fair enough" -- there's a long debate, going back to the beginnings of recorded music, along the lines of "technology vs. authenticity." IM"H"O :), "authenticity," in a pure sense as it's coded by most rock and even "concert/art" music commentators, is dead, and has been, as several writers have pointed out, ever since the scales tipped in favor of recordings so much that live rock shows are usually set up to sound like the recording! So, my counterargument to the "real instruments" line is that I'm not interested in buying into a naive nostalgia for the good-old pre-record days. We've got to work with where culture is now (as I think techno etc. artists are trying to do). Also, the inventiveness of house/techno/ambient musicians in using gadgets "incorrectly" to make new sounds unforeseen by the manufacturers *has* to be recognized as an authentic practice in its own right--i.e. doing what musicians have always done: using the tools at hand to make sounds that are meaningful at the time. In the end, at least as far as my own work and listening are concerned, all else is superfluous. Enough babbling. It's great to find this place where this kind of music is understood... I'll be listening... J ________ \ / | "Sweetie...... sweetie. How come when she put H. James Harkins | the phone to her ear, all I could hear was the jharkins@acpub.duke.edu | ocean?" -- Edina Monsoon on her \/ | ex-husband Marshall's latest girlfriend