IDM Mailing Archive

On September 9th FreyGuy quoted:

quoted 4 lines "MTV is junk pop culture that tells people who to be, what to like,

>"MTV is junk pop culture that tells people who to be, what to like, >and basically defines who they are. It is for people who need to be told. >Then there are the people who know what is cool and just want you to provide >it. M2 is for those people."

Eric Frans wrote:

quoted 6 lines Even if you don't hear back from them (I'm sure they get loads of e-mail)

>Even if you don't hear back from them (I'm sure they get loads of e-mail) >you can at least voice your appreciation of the show. I sent them an >e-mail a couple days ago and I encourage other fans of the AMP show to do >the same. Maybe if enough people show their support it will push MTV to >continue the show. I'm sure they are probably still debating whether or >not to keep it going or not. Let's try and sway them....

Hello all, It's wonderful (sarcasm here) that MTV executives are aware of how crappy the deal is, but this woman! How does she live with herself?! How condescending to assume that people need to be told how to define themselves! That's not true at all. I don't care how "stupid" people are (or MTV thinks they are), there is no way MTV can justify the claim that they're providing a &^*&@#@ service to the people. If anything, I think it's all the more evil that MTV knows exactly what it is doing. All this while I had the notion that MTV did know, but wasn't quite sure. So, now they want to find another audience to market their goods to (they've realized that there are "intelligent" people in the world that don't appreciate being led by the nose) and so are feeding the pretty little egos of people with more "complex" musical tastes by creating a special channel for them (or special shows). The whole thing is pitiful. People's relationship with music shouldn't be like this. I don't care if MTV tries to impress me with it's airing of obscure videos, it's still MTV. I don't feel comfortable watching a channel based on the sick philosophy that music should be used to provide ready-made identities for those that can't get one on their own. They are not thinking of the music or the artists or the listeners, they are thinking of their pocketbooks. It's great that these videos are being made and also aired to a larger audience, but at what price? Do we really want to encourage MTV to approprate yet another part of culture and water it down? There has to be another way to view these videos that doesn't involve kissing the butts of MTV executives. I don't know, maybe my views are unreasonable, impractical and just plain paranoid, I'm certainly open to criticism. I just don't trust MTV. I don't believe that they have the integrity necessary to promote IDM (or anything, for that matter) in a way that is beneficial for anyone not participating in their little agenda (which includes me). Tiffany

Hello, On Mon, 9 Sep 1996, tiffany wrote:

quoted 4 lines "MTV is junk pop culture that tells people who to be, what to like,

> >"MTV is junk pop culture that tells people who to be, what to like, > >and basically defines who they are. It is for people who need to be told. > >Then there are the people who know what is cool and just want you to provide > >it. M2 is for those people."

(actually she didn't write this part, just quoted it herself) MTV is nothing else than a 24 hours advertising channel. Program and commercial breaks are almost the same and don't think that the "underground" makes any profit out of this. Buisiness as usual! If you want to support majors, fine, buy CD at Blockbuster and watch MTV day and nite but don't complain then about missing innovation, about a dying underground. Buy going to the real underground clubs and by buying vinyl at your local record dealer, you can do something for this scene yourself. It takes some more effort, work and maybe more money but it is worth it!

quoted 6 lines Even if you don't hear back from them (I'm sure they get loads of e-mail)

> >Even if you don't hear back from them (I'm sure they get loads of e-mail) > >you can at least voice your appreciation of the show. I sent them an > >e-mail a couple days ago and I encourage other fans of the AMP show to do > >the same. Maybe if enough people show their support it will push MTV to > >continue the show. I'm sure they are probably still debating whether or > >not to keep it going or not. Let's try and sway them....

so what? After watching some of those Techno-Shows on MTV-Europe and Germans own music channel VIVA I am not interested in those programes anymore. Don't expect much there and prepare for a lot of techno related advertising (CD-sampler, streat-wear, energyser dinks, etc.).

quoted 1 line I don't care how "stupid" people are (or MTV thinks they are),

> I don't care how "stupid" people are (or MTV thinks they are),

at least people are clever enough to buy the advertised products, otherwise there wouldn't be $MTV$.

quoted 3 lines People's relationship with music shouldn't be like this. I don't care if

> > People's relationship with music shouldn't be like this. I don't care if > MTV tries to impress me with it's airing of obscure videos, it's still MTV.

right! :)

quoted 2 lines They are not thinking of the music or the artists or the listeners, they

> They are not thinking of the music or the artists or the listeners, they > are thinking of their pocketbooks.

Sure, what else? Why should that be different?! They arn't a public or independent station.

quoted 5 lines It's great that these videos are being made and also aired to a larger

> It's great that these videos are being made and also aired to a larger > audience, but at what price? Do we really want to encourage MTV to approprate > yet another part of culture and water it down? > There has to be another way to view these videos that doesn't involve > kissing the butts of MTV executives.

I think it should be but I don't know how and why not? Course, making videos costs a lot of money and what is the sense of a video? Selling your music. So probably a distribution of music-videos through our noramal distributors (f.e. Submerge) would be nice but then noone would have money to make videos.

quoted 2 lines I don't know, maybe my views are unreasonable, impractical

> I don't know, maybe my views are unreasonable, impractical > and just plain paranoid,

I agree very much to you. Question: why music videos? Do we neet them? Does this music need videos? Wasn`t Techno (as Disco, House, etc.) about dancing on the dancefloor? I don't know, I think videos can be a great creative addition to the music and some videos show this very impressivly. Generally I don't really need those videos and can do without them. best wishes and no flames please, harald +--------------------------------------------------------------------+ | visions and sounds from the wicked world of electronic dance music | | WWW -> http://rave.city.de/wicked | | a servive of http://www.music.city.de and Touch-Net | +--------------------------------------------------------------------+

quoted 2 lines Date: Tue, 10 Sep 1996 15:58:03 +0200 (MESZ)

> Date: Tue, 10 Sep 1996 15:58:03 +0200 (MESZ) > From: Harald Schmitz <qpy320@spf1.power.uni-essen.de>

quoted 9 lines MTV is nothing else than a 24 hours advertising channel. Program and

> MTV is nothing else than a 24 hours advertising channel. Program and > commercial breaks are almost the same and don't think that the > "underground" makes any profit out of this. Buisiness as usual! > If you want to support majors, fine, buy CD at Blockbuster and watch MTV > day and nite but don't complain then about missing innovation, about a > dying underground. Buy going to the real underground clubs and by buying > vinyl at your local record dealer, you can do something for this scene > yourself. It takes some more effort, work and maybe more money but it is > worth it!

Oh, this is just plain silly. These days, vinyl is an elitist medium: very few reasonably priced vinyl decks are available any more and runs of 1000 or so copies can be mastered on CD. Damn, I hate elitism, and this is one of its worst forms. The attitude is: It's "our" music and we don't want the great masses to pollute it. Question: why is "underground" techno better?

quoted 1 line best wishes and no flames please,

> best wishes and no flames please,

Mmm. Andrew.

Hi again, On Tue, 10 Sep 1996, Andrew Haley wrote:

quoted 2 lines Date: Tue, 10 Sep 1996 16:03:28 +0100

> Date: Tue, 10 Sep 1996 16:03:28 +0100 > These days, vinyl is an elitist medium:

is it? Still I buy 90% of all my music on vinyl. Why? Well, several reasons. 1. most of my vavourite music is only out on cd. 2. I prefer mixing etc. with vinyl but am willing to change to CD or any other medium as soon as the technique is acceptable.

quoted 1 line very few reasonably priced vinyl decks are available any more

> very few reasonably priced vinyl decks are available any more

really? I saw a lot of bargains for turntables last time in Miami. Cheap ones (good enough for just listening) and a lot of offers for DJ turntables. The price for a technics turntable is somehow high but not much higher as what you would pay for a better CD-player.

quoted 1 line and runs of 1000 or so copies can be mastered on CD.

> and runs of 1000 or so copies can be mastered on CD.

of course they can, but why should they. This music is mainly produced for clubs, for dancing and hardly any techno/house DJ doesn't work with CD's. For the homelisteners with CD Player you have tons of compilations, some good, some bad. And BTW, most techno-labels don't earn much money with their productions! But those people spend all their energy and devotion (and often a lot of their private money) into this music and that's where most of what people call IDM here comes from.

quoted 3 lines Damn, I hate elitism, and this is one of its worst forms. The

> Damn, I hate elitism, and this is one of its worst forms. The > attitude is: It's "our" music and we don't want the great masses to > pollute it.

Elitism is when you keep others out with purpose. It's open to you to get a turntable and buy vinyl and to go to the clubs, to support local rave events etc. It's not elitism, it's your choice!

quoted 1 line Question: why is "underground" techno better?

> Question: why is "underground" techno better?

What is better? At least you there wouldn't be techno without "underground" and without any living "underground" the scene will die sooner or later. You can see that development with a lot of music/youth scenes in the last 50 years. Disco f.e. died because of its mass media exploitation. HipHop stayed alive because of an active "underground". So maybe you should answer the question of better or not yourself. Me myself and I prefer the "underground". take care, harald

On 10-Sep-96, Andrew Haley wrote:

quoted 3 lines Oh, this is just plain silly. These days, vinyl is an elitist medium:

>Oh, this is just plain silly. These days, vinyl is an elitist medium: >very few reasonably priced vinyl decks are available any more and runs >of 1000 or so copies can be mastered on CD.

?? My decks cost £130 each (about $200) which over here, is less than most CD players. I consider vinyl to be the better format: it lasts longer than CD, it's more fun to use :) and it's still the prefered format for DJ's. Now I only buy CDs if it's an album I want to put on and leave on, like Glob Comm or SAW 2. For anything else, it's vinyl all the way. That's not elitist is it? Laters... heatsink@thenet.co.uk NP (on vinyl): "Jericho" - Syzygy

quoted 8 lines From: James Arnold <heatsink@thenet.co.uk>

> From: James Arnold <heatsink@thenet.co.uk> > Date: Wed, 11 Sep 1996 23:27:07 -0000 > > On 10-Sep-96, Andrew Haley wrote: > > >Oh, this is just plain silly. These days, vinyl is an elitist medium: > >very few reasonably priced vinyl decks are available any more and runs > >of 1000 or so copies can be mastered on CD.

quoted 2 lines ?? My decks cost ?130 each (about $200) which over here, is less

> ?? My decks cost ?130 each (about $200) which over here, is less > than most CD players.

Really? I didn't think that you could get a decent tonearm and cartridge for that, let alone a whole deck.

quoted 1 line I consider vinyl to be the better format: it lasts longer than CD,

> I consider vinyl to be the better format: it lasts longer than CD,

I doubt it. There have been problems with some CDs, but vinyl degrades every time it's played. Vinyl is in the same position now as 78s were around 1960.

quoted 1 line it's more fun to use :) and it's still the prefered format for DJ's.

> it's more fun to use :) and it's still the prefered format for DJ's.

Well, that's up to them: they have very different requirements to those who simply listen for pleasure. Maybe vinyl will continue for a while in specialized applications.

quoted 1 line Now I only buy CDs if it's an album I want to put on and leave on,

> Now I only buy CDs if it's an album I want to put on and leave on,

Which is what most people do with the music that they buy.

quoted 2 lines like Glob Comm or SAW 2. For anything else, it's vinyl all the way.

> like Glob Comm or SAW 2. For anything else, it's vinyl all the way. > That's not elitist is it?

Maybe not. Andrew.

quoted 12 lines Date: Thu, 12 Sep 1996 09:34:29 -0400 (EDT)

> Date: Thu, 12 Sep 1996 09:34:29 -0400 (EDT) > From: jabberwalqee <jts6123@email.unc.edu> > > > > I consider vinyl to be the better format: it lasts longer than CD, > > > > I doubt it. There have been problems with some CDs, but vinyl > > degrades every time it's played. Vinyl is in the same position now as > > 78s were around 1960. > > ummm....seee..ok. eat poop. > shellac is bigger than you > j

What _does_ this mean? I presume that "eat poop" is a school playground retort when you're all out of arguments, but I can't assign an meaning to "shellac is bigger than you". This is becoming the Beavis & Butthead of mailing lists. Andrew.

quoted 10 lines I consider vinyl to be the better format: it lasts longer than CD,

> > > > I consider vinyl to be the better format: it lasts longer than CD, > > > I doubt it. There have been problems with some CDs, but vinyl > > > degrades every time it's played. Vinyl is in the same position now as > > > 78s were around 1960. > > ummm....seee..ok. eat poop. > > shellac is bigger than you > > j > > What _does_ this mean? I presume that "eat poop" is a school > playground retort when you're all out of arguments, but I can't assign

my perceptive pal, there is no argument...cd vs vinyl is so tired here. it eats poop.

quoted 1 line an meaning to "shellac is bigger than you".

> an meaning to "shellac is bigger than you".

78's are made of shellac, disregarding all the fucked up hybrids they tried in the early 50's. dont take everything so seriously knobby knob knob knob joey joe joe joe j np: "heights" advent

Hello, On Thu, 12 Sep 1996 13:52:56 +0100, Andrew Haley <aph@cygnus.co.uk> wrote:

quoted 4 lines I consider vinyl to be the better format: it lasts longer than CD,

>> I consider vinyl to be the better format: it lasts longer than CD, > >I doubt it. There have been problems with some CDs, but vinyl >degrades every time it's played.

Yes, BUT vinyl doesn't degrade if it is not played. Whereas (non-gold) CDs and tapes both degrade over time, CDs oxidize and tapes lose their magnetism, both slower or faster depending on storage. Cheers, Ken <*> kstuart@mail.telis.org

quoted 2 lines anymore. Don't expect much there and prepare for a lot of techno related

> anymore. Don't expect much there and prepare for a lot of techno related > advertising (CD-sampler, streat-wear, energyser dinks, etc.).

Well what surprised me most was the advertising they did run. Some love songs of the 70's comp. CD and some classic rock comp. CD seemed like a waste of the big bucks the advertisers must have paid. And those ads were super long too.. I'm glad I taped it so I was able fast forward through them. I just hope MTV isn't using the response to the 1-800 number given during that commercial to rate the success of AMP.. though I wouldn't be all to surprised if they were. _john ---This Sig. File Starts Here--------------------------------------------- If you are interested in trading video and audio bootlegs.. or strange cult films, then feel free to e-mail me your trade lists. J.C. Tabone Listen to the Inorganic Otherworld 256 Athenia Drive, Saturday overnights (Sun. 2AM-6AM) Stoney Creek, ON L8J 1T7 on CFMU 93.3 FM McMaster Radio Canada Hamilton, Ontario u9205401@muss.cis.McMaster.ca (playing the best in Dark Ambient, Home: (905)573-8542 industrial, experimental, idm and Office: (905)525-9140 ext. 27445 and more) If you would like your band played on my show... feel free to send me your demos.. or e-mail me, if you would like the station address. ------------------------------------------------This Sig. File Ends Here--

Hello,

quoted 8 lines anymore. Don't expect much there and prepare for a lot of techno related

> > anymore. Don't expect much there and prepare for a lot of techno related > > advertising (CD-sampler, streat-wear, energyser dinks, etc.). > > Well what surprised me most was the advertising they did run. > > Some love songs of the 70's comp. CD and some classic rock comp. CD > seemed like a waste of the big bucks the advertisers must have paid. > > And those ads were super long too.

normaly at those times (wasn't the program late, very late at night?), commercials are a lot cheaper. And then, don't forget, that this program fast broadcasted for the first time, so how should there be special advertisings. In the beginning it was like that here in germany (MTV europe and VIVA, the german music channel) but after a while, the advertising breaks get longer and longer and more and more techno-scene related adverts are shown. Today the adverts are mostly for one of those meaningless commercial techno samplers. You could almost say there, that underground techno helps to sell commercial overground techno. Although I wouldn't call the techno of that music TV programs "underground". From inside of the scene it isn't, from the outside it might be.

quoted 3 lines I just hope MTV isn't using the response to the 1-800 number given during

> I just hope MTV isn't using the response to the 1-800 number given during > that commercial to rate the success of AMP.. though I wouldn't be all to > surprised if they were.

Most surveys, company quiz games etc. have the purpose to get a profile of the costumer in order to sell more and more and to get YOUR money for stuff you don't need. take care and best wishes, Harald

aph@cygnus.co.uk wrote:

quoted 22 lines Subject: Re: (idm) no more goddam mtv

> Subject: Re: (idm) no more goddam mtv > > > Date: Thu, 12 Sep 1996 09:34:29 -0400 (EDT) > > From: jabberwalqee <jts6123@email.unc.edu> > > > > > > I consider vinyl to be the better format: it lasts longer than CD, > > > > > > I doubt it. There have been problems with some CDs, but vinyl > > > degrades every time it's played. Vinyl is in the same position now as > > > 78s were around 1960. > > > > ummm....seee..ok. eat poop. > > shellac is bigger than you > > j > > What _does_ this mean? I presume that "eat poop" is a school > playground retort when you're all out of arguments, but I can't assign > an meaning to "shellac is bigger than you". > > This is becoming the Beavis & Butthead of mailing lists. > > Andrew.

Chill out man, I suspect he is pointing out the ridiculousness of this argument by proclaiming is love for an obselete sound format i.e. shellac. PS this is a ridiculous argument, so stop it. OK lets change the subject - Heres a recommendation for a summer's almost over but lets try to hang on to that vibe for just a little longer type record. The disc in question is by Dmitri from Paris, and its called Sacre Bleu. Its got House, Hip Hop, EZ listening, loungy jazz and an allround chill summery Parisian feel. So got out and buy it kids. OK lets change the subject again. Let me put forward my heartfelt condolences to the Global Headz crew (i.e. the Big Chill) who were left after the Gala with 60,000 pounds of debt and have now ceased trading. This is a terrible shame. Glabal Headz were pioneers of a forward looking ambient/experimental/eclectic London music scene, and just as it semmed they were getting the message across this happens. Blame the postal strikes for poor sales of Gala Tickets, blame the people of Diss for being tossers about the first site for the Gala. Pete Lawrence and co have put on more excellent events than I can remember and last years Gala will go down in history as the best festival I have ever been to, and most likely ever will. Thanks a lot guys, and good luck for the future, I'm sure you'll get it together again. Cheers Andrew C.