IDM Mailing Archive

"Like lately what I've been doing is taking the highs from one turntable, the mid-range from another and the bass from the third and then putting them together and it creates something completely different than all three of the records." J. Mills

On Fri, 28 Jun 1996, Aran M. Parillo wrote:

quoted 4 lines "Like lately what I've been doing is taking the highs from one turntable,

> "Like lately what I've been doing is taking the highs from one turntable, > the mid-range from another and the bass from the third and then putting > them together and it creates something completely different than all three > of the records." J. Mills

It's amazing to me that someone who pays so much lip service to the ideals of innovation and invention can cut a mix as monotonous as the Liquid Room CD. Boom boom boom boom (repeat until unconscious). We've made machines to make these boring beats, why don't we make robots to dance to them? I certainly wouldn't care to. The sound is muddy, too.

On Fri, 28 Jun 1996, Miles Egan wrote:

quoted 13 lines On Fri, 28 Jun 1996, Aran M. Parillo wrote:

> On Fri, 28 Jun 1996, Aran M. Parillo wrote: > > > "Like lately what I've been doing is taking the highs from one turntable, > > the mid-range from another and the bass from the third and then putting > > them together and it creates something completely different than all three > > of the records." J. Mills > > It's amazing to me that someone who pays so much lip service to the > ideals of innovation and invention can cut a mix as monotonous as the > Liquid Room CD. Boom boom boom boom (repeat until unconscious). We've > made machines to make these boring beats, why don't we make robots to > dance to them? I certainly wouldn't care to. The sound is muddy, too. >

With any repetetive music, unless you know where to listen for the changes and fluctuations you'll miss them. I heard most of Liquid Room in the record store and my reaction was 'Fuck Yeah!" and I followed it the way you have to follow an extended Coltrane solo like 'Traning In.' I didn't hear monotony, I heard variety, but the variety is at the edges -- at the center is "BOOM BOOM BOOM BOOM" I ain't going to make you buy this and make it your religion, Miles. Feel free to hate it. I just think you may be missing something here. --------------------------------------------------------------------- "I read Keyboard, but it's like staring at a book with pictures of simple looking but expensive machines." -- Michael Lazarev NEW CD Comp Electronic Music Project http://soli.inav.net/~kent/emp.html Kent Williams kent@inav.net CADSI 2651 Crosspark Road Coralville IA 52241 (319) 338 6053 (home) (319) 626 6700 x 219 (work) (319) 626 3489 (fax)

quoted 6 lines With any repetetive music, unless you know where to listen for the

> With any repetetive music, unless you know where to listen for the > changes and fluctuations you'll miss them. I heard most of Liquid Room > in the record store and my reaction was 'Fuck Yeah!" and I followed it > the way you have to follow an extended Coltrane solo like 'Traning In.' > I didn't hear monotony, I heard variety, but the variety is at the edges -- > at the center is "BOOM BOOM BOOM BOOM"

What reason on earth is there for this monotonous pounding? One of the things that I like best about electronic music is that it allows sounds and rhythms impossible with acoustic instruments played hands-on. This is just lazy. It takes about 2 seconds to set up a kick drum loop like that and I'd no sooner spend an hour listening to it than I would a metronome. This is anti-human music. Part of the reason I enjoy a lot of the Rephlex stuff so much is that so much personality and humor shines through all the rough edges of those disks. I'm sure I could come up with a simple computer algorithm that could churn out disks at interesting as the Liquid room mix all day long. I'm not a big fan of jungle in general but junglists deserve a lot of credit for opening up the rhythmic structure of this music. My problem with a lot of jungle is that it's not structured *enough* to hold my attention. This is a fine line to walk. It's hard for me not to see the entire history of 4-floor dance music as a crude pre-history of 21st century electronic music. Nobody is going to listen to those thumping house records 15 years from now. I don't even like to dance to this stuff and I'll *never* throw it on at home. There's a world of difference between using repetetion effectively and with restraint and just letting the sequencer loop endlessly. It's interesting to compare this to the Herbert disk, for example. Herbert sticks to our favorite house rhythm formula pretty closely, but weaves enough secondary rhythmic elements around it and mixes it low enough that it's possible to give his tracks some color and direction. I'm sure I'd like it better if he broke the beats up a bit, but there is at least something of his mind and soul there.

quoted 2 lines I ain't going to make you buy this and make it your religion, Miles.

> I ain't going to make you buy this and make it your religion, Miles. > Feel free to hate it. I just think you may be missing something here.

It's too late. I bought it already. I imagine that there is some interesting tweaking going on beneath all that idiotic pounding, but there are far too many musicians making music that is innovative and expressive at all levels for me to ever bother with something this compromised. This has certainly been churned through before, but I think it's intersting to note how little of the music discussed on the IDM list really is dance music.

On Sat, 29 Jun 1996, Miles Egan wrote: This

quoted 3 lines is just lazy. It takes about 2 seconds to set up a kick drum loop like

> is just lazy. It takes about 2 seconds to set up a kick drum loop like > that and I'd no sooner spend an hour listening to it than I would a > metronome. This is anti-human music.

I loved this last part; "anti-human music." Brilliant. A new genre - something like mills (hard techno) and cylob's industrial folk songs. My favourite. Brilliant thought miles, even if it had an adverse effect. About "Anti-human music;" If I'm unfamiliar with a new employee at a good record store, I'll ask them if they have anything that sounds totally foreign, made in space, possesed by aliens, et.al. Now i can ask for some "Anti-human music."

quoted 4 lines I'm sure I could come up

> I'm sure I could come up > with a simple computer algorithm that could churn out disks at > interesting as the Liquid room mix all day long. >

You see, you didn't pay attention to my last response. It's impossible for any dj (if there are any better than mills, I don't know) to produce a mix better than this on cd. It's LIVE; no re-editing in the studio, no mix and if you fuck up, you re-do it; it's fucking live! If you went to the liquid room that night, that's what you'd see, along with punters massive stompin' it out all night long. A single "computer algorithm" can't churn out the heart/soul of this dj who spins the best in "Anti-Human Music."(makes sense, eh)

quoted 4 lines This has certainly been churned through before, but I think it's

> This has certainly been churned through before, but I think it's > intersting to note how little of the music discussed on the IDM list > really is dance music. >

what? Aren't we discussing dance music right now? Even if you don't like Mills, his sets are definitely dance music; that you cannot dispute. People dance to this "idiotic pounding", because it's moving, hard, and lovely "anti human music". James Benjamin Gill-----jgill@u.arizona.edu**********************************

On Sat, 29 Jun 1996, James B Gill wrote:

quoted 2 lines I loved this last part; "anti-human music." Brilliant. A new genre -

> I loved this last part; "anti-human music." Brilliant. A new genre - > something like mills (hard techno) and cylob's industrial folk songs.

It's hardly a new genre. Go directly to Merzbow and follow the thread back from there. You can hop over to grindcore if you'd like something a bit more rhythmic.

quoted 12 lines I'm sure I could come up

> > I'm sure I could come up > > with a simple computer algorithm that could churn out disks at > > interesting as the Liquid room mix all day long. > > > You see, you didn't pay attention to my last response. It's impossible > for any dj (if there are any better than mills, I don't know) to produce > a mix better than this on cd. It's LIVE; no re-editing in the studio, no > mix and if you fuck up, you re-do it; it's fucking live! If you went to > the liquid room that night, that's what you'd see, along with punters > massive stompin' it out all night long. A single "computer algorithm" > can't churn out the heart/soul of this dj who spins the best in > "Anti-Human Music."(makes sense, eh)

I'm sure it would be extremely difficult to program a computer to mix records like this. It wouldn't be hard at all to teach one to beat an 808 like that and drop abstract analogue farts and squiggles. The product is the same. Buildups and tempo would just be entries in the parameter file. You could toss a few fractal kinks in the program too keep if from sounding too linear.

quoted 4 lines what? Aren't we discussing dance music right now? Even if you don't

> what? Aren't we discussing dance music right now? Even if you don't > like Mills, his sets are definitely dance music; that you cannot > dispute. People dance to this "idiotic pounding", because it's moving, > hard, and lovely "anti human music".

Amazingly enough, Mills' stuff is considered dance music by those challenged enough to enjoy twitching spastically to a bored drum machine for hours. It doesn't surprise me to learn that Mills grew up making industrial music. Most of the people floating on that boat much past the early 80's should have sunk with it. It's pretty hard to imagine anyone dancing to Spanners or Tri Repetae.

On Sat, 29 Jun 1996, Miles Egan wrote:

quoted 1 line It's pretty hard to imagine anyone dancing to Spanners or Tri Repetae.

> It's pretty hard to imagine anyone dancing to Spanners or Tri Repetae.

Ah...but wouldn't it be grand, though? :) A packed dancefloor gyrating to "Psil-Cosyin" - now *that* would be something to see. Hopefully, it's not as farfetched a concept as it may sound like.... - Matthew JustOn-->Drexciya: Sighting In The Abyss

On Fri, 28 Jun 1996, Miles Egan wrote:

quoted 8 lines On Fri, 28 Jun 1996, Aran M. Parillo wrote:

> On Fri, 28 Jun 1996, Aran M. Parillo wrote: > > It's amazing to me that someone who pays so much lip service to the > ideals of innovation and invention can cut a mix as monotonous as the > Liquid Room CD. Boom boom boom boom (repeat until unconscious). We've > made machines to make these boring beats, why don't we make robots to > dance to them? I certainly wouldn't care to. The sound is muddy, too. >

We'll I think that the rawness of the recording speaks for itself. For example DJ KICKS - CJ BOLLAND has a great mix of techno, the mixes were obviously done in a studio. Thats great and all that. The Jeff Mills is live it has the volume change and it is not perfect. It feels more real, and I respect that it captures the true feeling of being there. I thought that it was cool that it was released just as it, instaed of trying to cosmetically improve it. I have never heard him spin (in person), but I look forward to hearing him someday. I heard that Dave Clarke is similar in his DJ technique, I can't wait to hear him also. B i l l S a m u e l s w l s @ U . A r i z o n a . E D U *****************************************************************************

On Fri, 28 Jun 1996, Miles Egan wrote:

quoted 14 lines On Fri, 28 Jun 1996, Aran M. Parillo wrote:

> On Fri, 28 Jun 1996, Aran M. Parillo wrote: > > > "Like lately what I've been doing is taking the highs from one turntable, > > the mid-range from another and the bass from the third and then putting > > them together and it creates something completely different than all three > > of the records." J. Mills > > It's amazing to me that someone who pays so much lip service to the > ideals of innovation and invention can cut a mix as monotonous as the > Liquid Room CD. Boom boom boom boom (repeat until unconscious). We've > made machines to make these boring beats, why don't we make robots to > dance to them? I certainly wouldn't care to. The sound is muddy, too. > >

I absolutely love this cd. Jeff Mills's techno is a state of the art, in the mix, risk taking, no bullshit set. I completely respect this guy for releasing a _real_ live cd, instead of some mix that was made in the studio(like so many of the mix cd's are). This cd is brilliant, and i'm glad a dj as good as mills has the guts to record it live and release it with all the energy intact. James Benjamin Gill-----jgill@u.arizona.edu**********************************

Miles wrote -

quoted 5 lines It's amazing to me that someone who pays so much lip service to the

>It's amazing to me that someone who pays so much lip service to the >ideals of innovation and invention can cut a mix as monotonous as the >Liquid Room CD. Boom boom boom boom (repeat until unconscious). We've >made machines to make these boring beats, why don't we make robots to >dance to them? I certainly wouldn't care to. The sound is muddy, too.

Miles, is it the boom-boom foundation in itself sufficent grounds for disqualification to your ears? If that's the case, you can pretty much write off all of Mills, most of Luke Slater, Laurent Garnier, Dave Angel and Source--all of whom I can't get enough of. As someone else said, the innovation pokes its head from around the edges of the boom-boom four-cornered room--if it's the so-called four on the floor beat in itself that rubs you the wrong way. I'm not sure what point there is in your trying to get something out of this loose subgenre if you react this strongly to the rhythmic backbone (this is not meant as a flame, by the way.) The syncopated 4/4 boom-boom vibe is something that's impossible to legitimize in intellectual terms. It's something you either feel or don't. In my case I've felt it for as long as I can remember--maybe because when I got into techno the ONLY thing that was around was 4/4. For this reason I continue to have a voracious apetite for house--while for a lot of people just the hint of a diva opening her gob is enough to give them a rash. Much as I admire and appreciate people like Autechre, nothing by them has given me goosebumps the way "Late Night" or "DNA" did the first time I heard them. OK, this is going in a direction I didn't want it to, so I'll shut up.

quoted 1 line It's pretty hard to imagine anyone dancing to Spanners or Tri Repetae.

>It's pretty hard to imagine anyone dancing to Spanners or Tri Repetae.

I just did, last Tuesday- so there!

quoted 1 line It's pretty hard to imagine anyone dancing to Spanners or Tri Repetae.

>It's pretty hard to imagine anyone dancing to Spanners or Tri Repetae.

Drop by some time & I'll give you a demonstration how to dance to a Black Dog record. It's not as hard as you think it is ;-) Anyone heard Music for Adverts yet BTW? I just switched from IDM-reviews to IDM-'the lot' so I might have missed something. It's a strange record IMHO. I really like Strange Hill, The Big Issue and Minour but a lot of the tracks don't exceed the stage of unfinished idea's & soundsamples. Rene

quoted 1 line <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

---->"Techno is an universal language: VOW, VOW, VOW, VOW."<----- Chris Abbot of Infonet Records, 1993

quoted 1 line passetti@worldaccess.nl<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>passetti@worldaccess.nl<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

On Sun, 30 Jun 1996, Rene Passet wrote: } >It's pretty hard to imagine anyone dancing to Spanners or Tri Repetae. } } Drop by some time & I'll give you a demonstration how to dance to a Black } Dog record. It's not as hard as you think it is ;-) } } Anyone heard Music for Adverts yet BTW? I just switched from IDM-reviews to } IDM-'the lot' so I might have missed something. It's a strange record IMHO. } I really like Strange Hill, The Big Issue and Minour but a lot of the } tracks don't exceed the stage of unfinished idea's & soundsamples. Is the album already out or do you just have an advance copy of _Music For Adverts_ ? _/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/ _/ _/ _/ Eric Frans :: franse@bigdog.engr.arizona.edu _/ _/ _/ _/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/

quoted 2 lines Is the album already out or do you just have an advance copy of _Music For

>Is the album already out or do you just have an advance copy of _Music For >Adverts_ ?

To be released 22 July according to the excellent official Warp site at http://www.warp-net.com/ C. -- cspot@hyperreal.com (Chris.Hilker)

On Sun, 30 Jun 1996 15:33:15 -0700 (PDT), you wrote:

quoted 5 lines Is the album already out or do you just have an advance copy of _Music For

>>Is the album already out or do you just have an advance copy of _Music For >>Adverts_ ? > >To be released 22 July according to the excellent official Warp site at >http://www.warp-net.com/

Yup thanks Chris. There are only promo copies of Music for Adverts knocking about at the moment. The Black Dog = Ken Downie. The web site is updated with release info fairly regularly now, so look before you ask... g.

} Yup thanks Chris. There are only promo copies of Music for Adverts } knocking about at the moment. The Black Dog = Ken Downie. } } The web site is updated with release info fairly regularly now, so } look before you ask... It's so much more fun to bother you first, then look at the web site later. 8) _/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/ _/ _/ _/ Eric Frans :: franse@bigdog.engr.arizona.edu _/ _/ _/ _/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/

Rene Passet wrote on Sun, 30 Jun 96 22:42:00 BST :

quoted 4 lines Anyone heard Music for Adverts yet BTW? I just switched from IDM-reviews to

> Anyone heard Music for Adverts yet BTW? I just switched from IDM-reviews to > IDM-'the lot' so I might have missed something. It's a strange record IMHO. > I really like Strange Hill, The Big Issue and Minour but a lot of the > tracks don't exceed the stage of unfinished idea's & soundsamples.

If you've got a copy, it's the rest of us that are missing something! Let's hear more in the way of a review. J ^ __________ ________.__/_____ _||_/ James Skilton aka Steady J _[]/_____________[.__\____-_ DJ and Party Animal | Ae discog on-line now! | Part Time Hedonist |____________________________| Full Time Technohead |__|-' '-|__| Steady-J@Firefox.co.uk http://subnet.virtual-pc.com/~sk393820/

On 1 Jul 1996, Angie G wrote:

quoted 13 lines James B gill wrote regarding Miles Egen's 'mail'....

> James B gill wrote regarding Miles Egen's 'mail'.... > > >what? Aren't we discussing dance music right now? Even if you don't > >like Mills, his sets are definitely dance music; that you cannot > >dispute. People dance to this "idiotic pounding", because it's moving, > >hard, and lovely "anti human music". > > I agree > > idiotic pounding....? > Obviously he is listening to it it in the wrong way or cant handle it...just > because its 'hard' it doesn't mean its 'idiotic pounding' . Mills stuff (and > what he plays) is full of FUNK!!!!

I believe he is quoting someone else's quote. Gabber at least what I have heard is 'idiotic pounding'. The Live at the Liquid Room is just great dancefloor energy. I heard that the next live dj cd coming on Sony Japan, is Ken Ishii, and he also spins Strings of Life (like Mills), it must be still be a club favorite over there. Classic track!!

quoted 3 lines I'd rather listen to the ruffness, and energy packed 'live at liquid room'

> I'd rather listen to the ruffness, and energy packed 'live at liquid room' than > the assortment of cds made by people who are up thier arses who think they are > more 'intelligent'

Jeff Mills - Live at the Liquid Room, has my vote for one of the best DJ Mix compilations. Jeff Mills sounds like he would be ruthless to the punters on the dancefloor. Someone mentioned in an earlier post, that this recording is real (not in studio) and the mixing is raw. That is what is so attractive about this release, because it's the real thing rough around the edges (not perfect). I have DJ KICKS - CJ Bolland, it has a great line-up of techno on it, but it is obvious it was done in the studio. It's a great CD but it doesn't have the same intensity as the Mills CD. Dave Clarke is suppose to have a dj mix cd coming out through MUZIK/Deconstruction today. I have heard him compared to Mills in DJ style, I can't wait to hear that.

On 1 Jul 1996, Angie G wrote:

quoted 10 lines James B gill wrote regarding Miles Egen's 'mail'....

> James B gill wrote regarding Miles Egen's 'mail'.... > > >what? Aren't we discussing dance music right now? Even if you don't > >like Mills, his sets are definitely dance music; that you cannot > >dispute. People dance to this "idiotic pounding", because it's moving, > >hard, and lovely "anti human music". > > I agree > > idiotic pounding....?

uhh, once and for all, this quote was from Miles' hand, not mine(jgill@u.arizona.edu). I'm a huge fan of this cd, and agree with everything written below. Fabulous description, matey!

quoted 18 lines Obviously he is listening to it it in the wrong way or cant handle it...just

> Obviously he is listening to it it in the wrong way or cant handle it...just > because its 'hard' it doesn't mean its 'idiotic pounding' . Mills stuff (and > what he plays) is full of FUNK!!!! > > I'd rather listen to the ruffness, and energy packed 'live at liquid room' than > the assortment of cds made by people who are up thier arses who think they are > more 'intelligent' > > I'm not generalising either, not all 'pounding' stuff is funky, intelligent or > whatever, some of it is pure shite, and if its not "pounding" it doesn't mean > its crap either. Quality music can be of any form, but there are anally > retentive people everywhere (who love to make sweeping generalisations) and > think they're above everyone else...beware! > > Angie > Trax,London > >

James Benjamin Gill-----jgill@u.arizona.edu**********************************

quoted 9 lines James B gill wrote regarding Miles Egen's 'mail'....

> James B gill wrote regarding Miles Egen's 'mail'.... > > >what? Aren't we discussing dance music right now? Even if you don't > >like Mills, his sets are definitely dance music; that you cannot > >dispute. People dance to this "idiotic pounding", because it's moving, > >hard, and lovely "anti human music". > > I agree >

uhh, once and for all, this quote was from Miles' hand, not mine(jgill@u.arizona.edu). I'm a huge fan of this cd, and agree with everything written below. Fabulous description, matey! <snip> I know, Iknow....I think we have our wires crossed a bit here, lets just draw the conclusion that Miles was talking out of his arse and you weren't..! Angie Trax, London

quoted 4 lines what? Aren't we discussing dance music right now? Even if you don't

>> >what? Aren't we discussing dance music right now? Even if you don't >> >like Mills, his sets are definitely dance music; that you cannot >> >dispute. People dance to this "idiotic pounding", because it's moving, >> >hard, and lovely "anti human music".

Sure...idiots need dance music too! Isn't that what they used to say about disco, that it had a beat even white people could dance to? No wonder he (Mills) spends so much time in Germany. But even putting that aside and looking at the notion of "anti human music," if you accept the theory that what makes humans humans is that they can think and reason and move their thumbs independently of the rest of their fingers, well, I'm sure you can do the algebra. eric, wishing the library carried LeRoi Jones' "Blues People"