IDM Mailing Archive

Hi! A week ago I wrote a two-liner dissing FSOL and lifeforms in particular. Since then I've been flamed (politely), contradicted, and offered drugs to see the light. I fail to see it and I hope that someone will understand what I'm trying to say: Lifeforms is an AMBIENT album. The kind that blends and bends and don't set things in motion. FSOL used excellent production and underwater sounds to take you to journey, THEY HAVE NOT RE-INVENTED THE WHEEL! just had to get it off my chest and feel I filled my duties as a good citizen. And yes, next time I drop an E (on january according to schedule), I'll give it one last listen. Back to the cool melodies / Eylon. snowjob@actcom.co.il The Morpheus Equation: Start + Middle + End = Sand

quoted 2 lines Lifeforms is an AMBIENT album. The kind that blends and bends and don't set

> Lifeforms is an AMBIENT album. The kind that blends and bends and don't set > things in motion. FSOL used excellent production and underwater sounds to

I can assure you, there is _much_ more going on on any one track on this album than "underwater sounds". Excellent production, yes, especially when they go and sample bats flying out of a cave, slow it down to a snails pace, and crank up the reverb. Or when they go and sacre the bejeebers out of you, like on the last track, toward the beginning, where they fade this minimal resonant tone in and out, in and out, in and *BBEEEEEIIIIIZZZZZZZZZZOOOOWWWWWWWWWW*, you're AWAKE!

quoted 1 line take you to journey, THEY HAVE NOT RE-INVENTED THE WHEEL!

> take you to journey, THEY HAVE NOT RE-INVENTED THE WHEEL!

What do you think the point of IDM/Ambient is? Of course they haven't re-invented the wheel... that's why I (at least) loved the album when it came out. It sounded _vastly_ different, and had depth. As in, I listened to it over and over and over, and kept finding new parts of the album that I hadn't recognized on previous listens. OnNow: Fresh Emissions- "Vermin- Anakrohn" -- guyjr@cc.gatech.edu a.k.a., Guy Elden Jr.

On Thu, 6 Jun 1996 guyjr@cc.gatech.edu wrote:

quoted 7 lines Lifeforms is an AMBIENT album. The kind that blends and bends and don't set

> > Lifeforms is an AMBIENT album. The kind that blends and bends and don't set > > things in motion. FSOL used excellent production and underwater sounds to > > I can assure you, there is _much_ more going on on any one track on this > album than "underwater sounds". Excellent production, yes, especially when > they go and sample bats flying out of a cave, slow it down to a snails > pace, and crank up the reverb.

I have to say that while I have thoroughly enjoyed others of FSOL's efforts, Lifeforms has always left me quite unimpressed. A great number of good ideas went into the piecing together of those tracks but it's always been impressive to me more for the potential it points to than for anything it achieves on it's own. The sampling that they has been done, albeit sans their particular brand of fireworks, over and over since the phonograph was invented. I have books and books on that if anyone wants titles. Lifeforms pushed it a little but ends up as a huge mess in my experience. Same goes for an Otomo Yoshihide disk I picked up a while ago. Tremendously well though out but a downright miserable execution. paul.

On Thu, 6 Jun 1996 guyjr@cc.gatech.edu wrote:

quoted 5 lines Lifeforms is an AMBIENT album. The kind that blends and bends and don't set

> > Lifeforms is an AMBIENT album. The kind that blends and bends and don't set > > things in motion. FSOL used excellent production and underwater sounds to > > I can assure you, there is _much_ more going on on any one track on this > album than "underwater sounds".

Heh. Like ripping huge chunks of Morton Subotnick, orchestral recordings of Pachabel's Canon, and using loops from popular sample CD's? I like FSOL just fine, but I can think of a lot of people who've done a more inventive job with sampling. In fact ISDN is a big improvement. --------------------------------------------------------------------- Check the lame home page http://soli.inav.net/~kent/ Kent Williams kent@inav.net CADSI 2651 Crosspark Road Coralville IA 52241 (319) 338 6053 (home) (319) 626 6700 x 219 (work) (319) 626 3489 (fax)

At 7:03 PM 6/6/96, Eylon Israeli wrote:

quoted 3 lines Lifeforms is an AMBIENT album. The kind that blends and bends and don't set

>Lifeforms is an AMBIENT album. The kind that blends and bends and don't set >things in motion. FSOL used excellent production and underwater sounds to >take you to journey, THEY HAVE NOT RE-INVENTED THE WHEEL!

really. i don't agree. i think this is a stunning breakout record. in fact, i'm listening to it right now just to make sure i remember it correctly and what do i find? the first track has beats. admittedly they're not stomping floor fillers, but you can groove to it quite nicely. then there's a lovely melody and some cool electronic noises. what else sounds like this?? (really, i want to know who they are biting their style from cos then i can go check it out). let's move along then. "ill flower" - haunting strings and soaring vocals. beautiful. abstract yet melodic. what else sounds like this? "flak" : consistent 4 on the floor beat through the whole thing. beautiful swirling melody. i can't think of anything that sounds like the melody in this track. it's so THEM. "bird wings": a little bit of filler, but so well executed. great production. listen to how the wings flutter from channel to channel. it makes me dizzy. and now we come to one of the greats - "dead skin cells" with the beautiful lazy meandering piano line. then a nice booming hip hop loop comes in completely out of sync with the rest of the track, forming a complex polyrhythm. where have you heard something so beautiful and yet so contradictory executed with such flair and skill prior to this? if you can't see tracks like this as part of a landmark work, you must be coming to music from a totally different angle from me. i've got to get back to work so i'll just hit the highlights on disc 2... "spineless jelly": beautiful synth bleeps, sort of a homage to old school tangerine dream style, maybe a little bit. (still uniquely fsol though) "vertical pig": this track is monstrous. swirling seas of dark noise punctuated with huge thunderclaps. you have to listen to this one really loud. when the rhythm gets going with those little vocal "ah"s providing the offbeat, it's just pure ecstasy. and then from dark scary to "cerebral" with its melancholic plucked guitars... another beautiful track in the "mountain goat" vein. "vit" stomps along with a scary machine rhythm. but listen to the subtle layers of detail that get added to the rhythm as it progresses... they just never sit still, these boys. it's all sensory overload. but it all fits together so nicely. and then the double-time 808 rhythm comes in and you realize that they aren't just adding stuff for the hell of it; it's all to a purpose... "room 208" is super funky! i have never heard a drum machine rhythm like that before, and then you get that smashing moogy bass. this one is definitely a precursor to ISDN.

quoted 3 lines just had to get it off my chest and feel I filled my duties as a good

>just had to get it off my chest and feel I filled my duties as a good >citizen. And yes, next time I drop an E (on january according to schedule), >I'll give it one last listen.

listen to it REALLY LOUD on a really good stereo system. i'm listening to it on my studio monitors right now and it is so wonderfully deep and transparent. it's just beautiful. -- Name: Jon Email: jsd@cyborganic.com Web: http://www.cyborganic.com/bass-kittens/

On Fri, 7 Jun 1996, Jon Drukman wrote:

quoted 3 lines then there's a lovely melody and some cool electronic noises. what else

> then there's a lovely melody and some cool electronic noises. what else > sounds like this?? (really, i want to know who they are biting their style > from cos then i can go check it out).

I agree that FSOL came up with a new sound but I think the question is whether what's going on in Lifeforms really contitutes something new. All the sampling/manipulation that's used is nothing new and doesn't come across to me as good or well done or what have you.

quoted 3 lines listen to it REALLY LOUD on a really good stereo system. i'm listening to

> listen to it REALLY LOUD on a really good stereo system. i'm listening to > it on my studio monitors right now and it is so wonderfully deep and > transparent. it's just beautiful.

This I have to agree with by all means but anything not made by some kid on his power mac, ie anything produced at high volume's gonna sound better at that same high volume. pH

quoted 8 lines --

> > -- > Name: Jon > Email: jsd@cyborganic.com > Web: http://www.cyborganic.com/bass-kittens/ > > >

At 11:29 AM 6/7/96, pH wrote:

quoted 2 lines I agree that FSOL came up with a new sound but I think the question is

>I agree that FSOL came up with a new sound but I think the question is >whether what's going on in Lifeforms really contitutes something new.

can someone parse this sentence into english for me?

quoted 2 lines All

>All >the sampling/manipulation that's used is nothing new

so, who else has done anything approaching that level of textural detail?

quoted 3 lines This I have to agree with by all means but anything not made by some kid

>This I have to agree with by all means but anything not made by some kid >on his power mac, ie anything produced at high volume's gonna sound better >at that same high volume.

do you know anything about music production?

quoted 2 lines All

> >All > >the sampling/manipulation that's used is nothing new

Jon:

quoted 1 line so, who else has done anything approaching that level of textural detail?

> so, who else has done anything approaching that level of textural detail?

I would say that for its time, Pink Floyd's DSOTM is comparable, and represented a bigger breakthrough in production quality than Lifeforms I would also say that the production quality and sound textures of DSOTM are used to achieve a more well-defined musical statement, while I find much of Lifeforms to be sound production for the sake of sound production. That isn't a criticism, BTW. I love becoming absorbed in sound textures. Lifeforms may not achieve an overall musical statement for me, but it sure is wonderful to listen to. Lee _________________________________________________________________________ lxfogel@pacbell.com ( ( ( ( ((0)) ) ) ) ) lee@hyperreal.com ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Mr. Drukman retorted:

quoted 4 lines I agree that FSOL came up with a new sound but I think the question is

> >I agree that FSOL came up with a new sound but I think the question is > >whether what's going on in Lifeforms really contitutes something new. > > can someone parse this sentence into english for me?

It's english or pretty close as far as I can tell. I be happy to field specific questions about the sentence.

quoted 4 lines All

> >All > >the sampling/manipulation that's used is nothing new > > so, who else has done anything approaching that level of textural detail?

There's a actually quite a few people who broke ground in sampling and manipulation about 80 years ago...as soon as I find the books I have on it I'll post the titles...they're really quite interesting. More recently there's been more so called avant-garde classical doing the very same thing for years. Probably not an the same textural tip, I agree. My question was does Lifeforms do anything but create texture for its own sake. That's been done and redone sans all the sampling glitz for centuries.

quoted 6 lines This I have to agree with by all means but anything not made by some kid

> >This I have to agree with by all means but anything not made by some kid > >on his power mac, ie anything produced at high volume's gonna sound better > >at that same high volume. > > do you know anything about music production? >

Probably a great deal more than you think judging from your kind of sad little prodding. Had a bad day did we? My point about Lifeforms and this applies to no other of FSOL's releases is this: I have listened top those two cd's a number of times since they came out and I am impressed with the ammount of equipment and quality of equipment they must have used to produce it and am impressed by some of their ideas. I have never though, really enjoyed Lifeforms as I do a lot of other music. It has always seemed to me to be an attempt to push the envelope which is, as most such attempt's are, a rehash of a lot of other things whic came before it. It is therefore kind of disappointing to me. Given the ammount of time and effort it seems was put into those tracks I would have been elated if they really did show us a whole new place to go. I doesn't This is my last word on this issue...For a while I'll just review the new records I get so as to stay outta trouble. style, style, style: paul.

On Fri, 7 Jun 1996, Jon Drukman wrote:

quoted 5 lines At 11:29 AM 6/7/96, pH wrote:

> At 11:29 AM 6/7/96, pH wrote: > >I agree that FSOL came up with a new sound but I think the question is > >whether what's going on in Lifeforms really contitutes something new. > > can someone parse this sentence into english for me?

he means "constitutes" you snob. Quit frontin' on the ghetto slang me and mah homeies use James Benjamin Gill-----jgill@u.arizona.edu********************************** JUST BOUGHT EGYPTIAN LOVER'S GREATEST HITS, AND I LOVE IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!