IDM Mailing Archive

There is a short article on Orbital's new album at: http://www.rise.co.uk/orbital/interv1.html

Hi. Anyone know anything about this project on New Rose? And I'm positive it's NOT Carl Craig. Christian

Hi Jon, JB>> T-Power - The Self-Evident Truth of an Intuitive Mind CD (SOUR) JB>> It's difficult to guess what inspired all the hype surrounding JB>> this album. It's certainly a very competent record, but it's also so JB>> sugary JB>What hype ? This is ambient jungle (for want of a tag) at its best. JB>Quality production makes the beats and 'noodles' work so well. I don't JB>really see the direct comparison with (the indeed excellent) Plug which JB>is seriously in yer face and experimental. Exactly - some people want all Jungle to sound like Plug, or Hangable Auto Bulb. While those records are excellent cutting edge releases, I was also seriously impressed with the T Power LP. You don't knock 'The Beginning' for having noodly orchestral sounds, do you? JB>OnNow: Orbital - In Sides (forgive and forget for The Box single, eh ? ) <g> I reckon they haven't done much good stuff since Analogue Test :) ... 'Emotion Heater' - The Gentle People Cheers, SjaY. *Fido* 2:250/151 *E-Mail* Geotrax@jukjoint.warp.co.uk ___ * UniQWK v4.1 * The Windows Mail Reader

quoted 1 line Orbital - In Sides (forgive and forget for The Box single, eh ? )

> > Orbital - In Sides (forgive and forget for The Box single, eh ? )

I seem to be in the minority, but _Snivilisation_ is my favorite Orbital album. Favorite -release- would probably be the Radiccio EP (aka Halcyon), which is obviously similar to the "brown album" (beloved by everyone) but wins for the strength of the material, a concise length, and that it also works as a pretty coherent whole. I did not care much for "The Box". Lost it on the harpsichord. I would have hoped Orbital operated on a higher level than to use a synth or sampler for a blasted -harpsichord- patch... However I did appreciate the percussion arrangement. --Mark

On Thu, 2 May 1996, Mark Kolmar wrote:

quoted 6 lines I did not care much for "The Box". Lost it on the harpsichord. I would

> > I did not care much for "The Box". Lost it on the harpsichord. I would > have hoped Orbital operated on a higher level than to use a synth or > sampler for a blasted -harpsichord- patch... However I did appreciate the > percussion arrangement. >

I think this one may grow on you -- it has on me. It has a real Enrico Morricone soundtrack feel to it. I keep returning to Mix 2. That weird rocking chair sound at the beginning ... then the distorto blast drone. A door creaks. Brushed toms come in. Chords on the harpsichord, layer upon layer of counterpoint. If this piece isn't a journey somewhere I don't know what is. The 'ever-spiraling-upwards' chord progression reminded me a lot of Nik Kershaw for some reason. Anyone remember him? C'mon, show your age! Kent Williams kent@inav.net (319) 338 6053 (home) (319) 626 6700 x 219 (work) (319) 626 3489 (fax)

To anyone thinking about going to see Orbital live on the current tour, GO. The gig at Wolverhampton on Wednesday was truly excellent, again. Wow. Strangest observation of the night : Someone with an Aphex Twin tattoo.... .........hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm Warren.

the new Orbital: In Sides I love it! sorry for not specifying why, but just loving it is enough for me. lost for words, Helen

Amp. What a great show. Aphex and Autechre were the best hands down, IMHO. So, was this a one time shot, or will there be different shows? Did it start late? I recorded it, but it cut off in the middle of the Chem. Bros. vid. (I put it on a timer). Luckily, someone else recorded it and I saw the second UW vid... Did MTV mess up with putting "On" on SAWII, or am I missing something? The Box! I forgot about that... How is the rest of In Sides? I might get it, but I haven't had luck with Orbital so far... Orbital 2 has a few listenable tracks, and Snivelization is worse, IMO. Thanks, Adam

quoted 1 line Amp. What a great show. Aphex and Autechre were the best hands down,

> Amp. What a great show. Aphex and Autechre were the best hands down,

Absolutely. I thought Autechre came through tops with the best "implementation" video, making sense of some of the noise on the track. Of course, the sound sucked royally... had to listen to the track on CD after to remember what the proper track sounds like. Worst sound IMO was the Chemical Bro track... vocals, did someone say vocals???

quoted 1 line So, was this a one time shot, or will there be different shows?

> So, was this a one time shot, or will there be different shows?

This incarnation of it sure seems like a one time shot... I think they ran 10 or 20 too few commercials, but it _was_ on at 3am. gracing my ears at 44.1khz/16-bit/stereo --> Second Scepe -- guyjr@cc.gatech.edu | I.D.M.- That stage in sleeping when your feet are a.k.a., Guy Elden Jr. | moving faster than your eyes.

On Thu, 5 Sep 1996, Adam Bender wrote:

quoted 2 lines Amp. What a great show. Aphex and Autechre were the best hands down,

> Amp. What a great show. Aphex and Autechre were the best hands down, > IMHO.

i thought the aphex video was a bit silly, but that's not surprising. kind of reminded me of the monkees, if they had a heavy surrealist influence.

quoted 3 lines Did it start late? I recorded it, but it cut off in the middle of the

> Did it start late? I recorded it, but it cut off in the middle of the > Chem. Bros. vid. (I put it on a timer). Luckily, someone else recorded > it and I saw the second UW vid...

it seemed to start on time to me. 3 to 4 am, i sat there watching it and taping it like the gork i am.

quoted 1 line Did MTV mess up with putting "On" on SAWII, or am I missing something?

> Did MTV mess up with putting "On" on SAWII, or am I missing something?

i'd say it was a mistake - <sarcasm>stunning that mtv would screw up, isn't it? </sarcasm>

quoted 3 lines The Box! I forgot about that... How is the rest of In Sides? I might

> The Box! I forgot about that... How is the rest of In Sides? I might > get it, but I haven't had luck with Orbital so far... Orbital 2 has a > few listenable tracks, and Snivelization is worse, IMO.

i didn't like snivilisation that much, but i need to give it a few more listens. i think "in sides" is pretty brilliant, on a level with "the box," although that kind of seems like the showpiece of the album. the double-disc version is cool, nice to have the 28-minute version of "the box" as well. gymkata! [grievous] [http://onramp.uscom.com/~grievous] [dilute! dilute! ok!] [sloth code: S++]

adam, in answer to your question about in-sides...YES, it's a brillliant cd. furthermore, if u buy it now, u get a bonus cd free (50 min.) which has the full 25 min version of The Box on it. it's limited edition, so if your thinking about buying it, don't wait too long... btw, i agree that snivilization is weak, but orbital 2 is a great cd, IMHO. /\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\ mAlo <mjlst30+@pitt.edu> 'out of key slightly just enough to anNoy you' Tear_Garden \/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/

On Fri, 6 Sep 1996, Marc J Lowenstein wrote:

quoted 6 lines adam,

> adam, > > in answer to your question about in-sides...YES, it's a brillliant cd. > furthermore, if u buy it now, u get a bonus cd free (50 min.) which has > the full 25 min version of The Box on it. it's limited edition, so if > your thinking about buying it, don't wait too long...

How long has it been out, and how long will it remain out?

quoted 1 line

>

Adam P.S. To answer Chris's question, it's been a while since I've heard it, but Lush 3-1, Halcyon, and a few others are the ones I like.

adam, it's been out since late june, i'm told. i don't know how long the 2-cd set will be available, just that it's limited edition. i'd recommend buying it asap if u.r. at all interested. mArc p.s. check out my e-dress. i'm from pitt 2! send my an emsg some time and lets 'meat'. /\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\ mAlo <mjlst30+@pitt.edu> 'out of key slightly just enough to anNoy you' Tear_Garden \/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/

quoted 1 line The Box! I forgot about that... How is the rest of In Sides?

>The Box! I forgot about that... How is the rest of In Sides?

It's by far the best album I've heard this year. If anything else comes close in terms of development of emotional content over the course of thought- provoking, diverse tracks that stand on their own, I want to hear it.

quoted 2 lines Orbital 2 has a

>Orbital 2 has a >few listenable tracks, and Snivelization is worse, IMO.

I agree: 'Snivilisation' is worse. Which tracks on the brown album do you consider unlistenable (besides the obvious "Time Becomes" and "Input Out")? C. -- cspot@hyperreal.com (Chris.Hilker)

At 7:37 AM -0700 9/6/96, Chris.Hilker wrote:

quoted 5 lines The Box! I forgot about that... How is the rest of In Sides?

>>The Box! I forgot about that... How is the rest of In Sides? > >It's by far the best album I've heard this year. If anything else comes close >in terms of development of emotional content over the course of thought- >provoking, diverse tracks that stand on their own, I want to hear it.

gee, i thought insides was really quite lame, with maybe one or two listenable tracks. if you want a MUCH better album (and i do mean album, as in "set of tracks that work together to take you somewhere") that is at least somewhat stylistically related to orbital, check out Everest by Off And Gone. to my mind, this is what orbital could be if they had a much better grasp of melody and sound design.

quoted 5 lines Orbital 2 has a

>>Orbital 2 has a >>few listenable tracks, and Snivelization is worse, IMO. > >I agree: 'Snivilisation' is worse. Which tracks on the brown album do you >consider unlistenable (besides the obvious "Time Becomes" and "Input Out")?

since everybody needs to get their 2 cents in on this one, my ordering would be: snivilisation, orbital 1, insides, orbital 2. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Jon Drukman jsd@cyborganic.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------

I have not heard the song, but the point is that making music for a film is not automatically bad, nor is having your song in a film. Even a big budget action film. It usually bad, but not automatically bad. Example: My first introduction to FSOL was the classic Papua New Guinea, which I heard on a comp tape. I asked the compiler where he got it, and he said "Beleive it or not, from the Cool World soundtrack." I think that was the first (if not only) domestic (American) release of Papua New Guinea. I would never see that fucking movie, but I bought the CD. Sometimes a big-budget hollywood film is notable for its art direction or its music, even if the acting or directing is crap. This is rare. Sometimes artists think they can work for a hollywood studio and still retain their integrity as artists. Usually they are sadly mistaken. But sometimes they get money and exposure and more artistic freedom in the future. Besides, Gonzi, you never liked orbital anyway. Why should you be disappointed in them? ;) -Chris Fahey

quoted 11 lines -----Original Message-----

> -----Original Message----- > From: Gonzi (Fresh) > > Why is everyone so quick to jump to Orbital's defense? Listen to the > song first and then tell me what you think. IT IS fucking horrible. If > they want to do a musical soundtrack to a decent film, that's another > thing. But contributing A song to a a big hollywood action film > soundtrack that is obviously trying to cash in big on the next big > thing > is selling themselves out, plain and simple. >

quoted 2 lines Besides, Gonzi, you never liked orbital anyway. Why should you be

> Besides, Gonzi, you never liked orbital anyway. Why should you be > disappointed in them? ;)

Why does everyone think I don't like Orbital? I have everything they put out. Just because I didn't think In Sides was as good as Feed Me Weird Things doesn't mean I hate them. I just hate to see them letting themselves be taken advantage of by what is a pretty obivous attempt to cash in on a rising trend in music. I've seen the trailer for the Saint and basically, it looks like a low rent Mission Impossible with Val Kilmer pulling Elizabeth Shue from explosion after explosion (poor girl, how could she make it without him?). Maybe I'm overeacting, but I still think the song is terrible and it's all so horribly...errr...commercial. BTW, this isn't the first time Orbital has had tracks in a film. They were also featured on the soundtrack to the horrendous Hackers, the horrendous Johnny Mneumonic, and the amusing Kiss of Death. gonzi.

quoted 4 lines BTW, this isn't the first time

> BTW, this isn't the first time > Orbital has had tracks in a film. They were also featured on the > soundtrack to the horrendous Hackers, the horrendous Johnny Mneumonic, > and the amusing Kiss of Death.

Don't forget Mortal Kombat. :P m@

it sounds like joe studio-head needed something hip for his new hip movie, someone played him 'the box' and he said '*yeeesss!* etc. the songs okay but.... mb <mB.twenty-first century soul. <mikebee@freenet.tlh.fl.us.

quoted 5 lines Why does everyone think I don't like Orbital? I have everything they put

> Why does everyone think I don't like Orbital? I have everything they put > out. Just because I didn't think In Sides was as good as Feed Me Weird > Things doesn't mean I hate them. I just hate to see them letting > themselves be taken advantage of by what is a pretty obivous attempt to > cash in on a rising trend in music.

It seems little late to complain about the Mortal Kombat soundtrack. I think the Hartnolls are capable of evaluating the plusses and minuses of participating in a project like this, and deciding whether it's the right thing for them to do. Seems a little patronizing to assume that they're being taken advantage of (i.e., not clever enough to notice that they're being "used" by the Big Evil Media Companies). -- ::: Lazlo (lazlo@swcp.com; http://www.swcp.com/lazlo) ::: Internet Music Wantlists: http://www.swcp.com/lazlo/Wantlists

In message , "Gonzi (Fresh)" <fresh@linkonline.net> writes

quoted 4 lines I just hate to see them letting

> I just hate to see them letting >themselves be taken advantage of by what is a pretty obivous attempt to >cash in on a rising trend in music. >

Taken advantage ? They made the decision,nobody put a gun to their head.

quoted 5 lines I've seen the trailer for the Saint and basically, it looks like a low

>I've seen the trailer for the Saint and basically, it looks like a low >rent Mission Impossible with Val Kilmer pulling Elizabeth Shue from >explosion after explosion (poor girl, how could she make it without >him?). >

It might well be crap,Shopping was, can't blame Orbital for that though.

quoted 2 lines Maybe I'm overeacting, but I still think the song is terrible and it's

>Maybe I'm overeacting, but I still think the song is terrible and it's >all so horribly...errr...commercial.

I guess it's a fairly melodic thing (havn't heard it yet myself), but Chime turned out to be commercial, as did Satan in the UK ! (several years later....) Horribly......errrr....catchy ? errrr.......fun ?

quoted 4 lines BTW, this isn't the first time

> BTW, this isn't the first time >Orbital has had tracks in a film. They were also featured on the >soundtrack to the horrendous Hackers, the horrendous Johnny Mneumonic, >and the amusing Kiss of Death.

and the horrendously funny Mortal Combat, now that was a shock. I think Orbital just do whatever they want, if they should make a tune that might be considered commercial now and again, so what ? I think the intention is the main thing, from what I can pick up about them they seem quite anti-corporate because they have in the past been frustrated by lack of artistic control over their work. If they just wanted the money there would be Orbital plastic dolls in your local shop by now ! Just my opinion ! ;) -- Mark S-D <msd@marksd.demon.co.uk> Please remove the *no spam* from my address when using reply. Thankyou.

quoted 1 line "Bucephalus Bouncing Ball". Kind of gimmicky what with the bouncing

> "Bucephalus Bouncing Ball". Kind of gimmicky what with the bouncing

ball-like

quoted 1 line effects. Mostly a rhythmic exercise with a bit of wobbly synth

> effects. Mostly a rhythmic exercise with a bit of wobbly synth

melody tacked on.

quoted 1 line Autechre used a ball-like sound to much better effect on

> Autechre used a ball-like sound to much better effect on

"Cichlisuite". Sounds a lot

quoted 1 line like that "Spotlight" remix on the Wagon Christ 'Redone EP'.

> like that "Spotlight" remix on the Wagon Christ 'Redone EP'.

if i remember rightly (ive only listened to cichlisuite the once in a shop) it sounded like two wine glasses being knocked together on the Autechre record.... i thought that was a good sample.... unfortunately one good sample doesnt make a good record....If someone could of played me Cichlisuite minutes after first hearing Incunabula circa 1992 id of probably replied.... yeah sounds quite nice... but not much of a progression is it?.... nuff said. Steve /k/./F/ p.s. apparently Come To Daddy (mummy mix) went down a treat when the Spymania boys played it in Vienna...

quoted 10 lines If someone could of played

> > If someone could of played > > me Cichlisuite minutes after first hearing Incunabula circa 1992 id > of > > probably replied.... yeah sounds quite nice... but not much of a > > progression is it?.... > > Interesting that you think so. I believe that autechre have > progressed > immensly over the years, though they have continued to exploit music > within some rather small boundries.

id first like to point out that IMO Autechre are good at what they do... i dont simply detest them like for example Orbital... Chiastic Slide is undeniably a progression from Incunabula.... albeit not a huge one.. however i think Cichlisuite sounds very lazy compared to the recent album.... it sounds as if they 'banged it out' without much emotion or thought... ..i cant be the only one who thinks this?.. Steve /k/./F/

On Thu, 16 Oct 1997, .... wrote:

quoted 3 lines id first like to point out that IMO Autechre are good at what they do...

> id first like to point out that IMO Autechre are good at what they do... > > i dont simply detest them like for example Orbital...

Why do you detest Orbital? -Michael

quoted 3 lines i dont simply detest them like for example Orbital...

> > i dont simply detest them like for example Orbital... > > Why do you detest Orbital?

Thats a good question... i dont really know.... you know when you hear something like Boyz II Men.. and theyll harmonise in a certain way and it makes your whole body shake and nauseate.... its kinda like that...prime example 'The Saint'.... its enough to lose your faith in Techno.. ..normally pop acts like Take That, New kids and Spice girls only last 2-3 years if theyre lucky.... ..how come Orbital have tortured me for ten years now?... Steve /k/./F/

quoted 5 lines Thats a good question... i dont really know.... you know when you hear

> Thats a good question... i dont really know.... you know when you hear > something like Boyz II Men.. and theyll harmonise in a certain way > and it makes your whole body shake and nauseate.... its kinda like > that...prime example 'The Saint'.... its enough to lose your faith in > Techno..

Geez... I may slag on Orbital now and then, but I don't think they're _that_ bad. I'd think this analogy would be more appropriate for describing the posturing seen by the latest Prodigy, Chem Bros, and all the crap excuse for dance music I force myself to wake up to every morning on "THE NEW KTU 103.5" because it makes me pull my lazy ass outta bed to go turn the bloody radio OFF.

quoted 1 line ..how come Orbital have tortured me for ten years now?...

> ..how come Orbital have tortured me for ten years now?...

I dunno... perhaps lost in a timewarp? They've only been doing stuff for the last 7 or 8 at most by my count. -- jr

At 21:28 16/10/97 +0100, .... wrote:

quoted 5 lines Why do you detest Orbital?

>> Why do you detest Orbital? > >Thats a good question... i dont really know.... you know when you hear >something like Boyz II Men.. and theyll harmonise in a certain way >and it makes your whole body shake and nauseate....

Merely the mention of their name does that....

quoted 2 lines its kinda like that...prime example 'The Saint'....

>its kinda like that...prime example 'The Saint'.... >its enough to lose your faith in Techno..

Well I love Orbital but would say without any hesitation that 'The Saint' is their worst work. Have you heard the b-side, though, 'The Sinner'. Now that's more like it. I think they've got sick of years of relatively little recognition outside of their own sphere so they now want to become well known.

quoted 3 lines ..normally pop acts like Take That, New kids and Spice girls only last

>..normally pop acts like Take That, New kids and Spice girls only last >2-3 years if theyre lucky.... >..how come Orbital have tortured me for ten years now?...

I can't see how Orbital could be described as a pop act before 'The Saint'. Any tracks in particular that you'd call pop (other than 'The Saint')? Jon np: Funk D'Void 'Kincho' - Jon Green zcapn33@ucl.ac.uk They're back: "F**k the Millenium" see http://www.2k.org.uk

quoted 3 lines ..normally pop acts like Take That, New kids and Spice girls only last

> >..normally pop acts like Take That, New kids and Spice girls only last > >2-3 years if theyre lucky.... > >..how come Orbital have tortured me for ten years now?...

Yes, they are so boring. I saw them live once, and I must addmit that they sound much better live. I just stand and couldn't believe that the music that was coming out of speakers was by Orbital

quoted 1 line I can't see how Orbital could be described as a pop act before 'The

> I can't see how Orbital could be described as a pop act before 'The

Saint'.

quoted 1 line Any tracks in particular that you'd call pop (other than 'The Saint')?

> Any tracks in particular that you'd call pop (other than 'The Saint')?

The whole Snivilisation and Insides albums are pop. What is pop ?! Rob

On Thu, 16 Oct 1997 robert.merlak@ri.tel.hr wrote:

quoted 9 lines I can't see how Orbital could be described as a pop act before 'The

> > I can't see how Orbital could be described as a pop act before 'The > Saint'. > > Any tracks in particular that you'd call pop (other than 'The Saint')? > > The whole Snivilisation and Insides albums are pop. > What is pop ?! > > Rob >

Sniv and In Sides are pop? Uhm, I always thought of pop as more of the music you'd hear 3 dozen times a day on the "#1 hit music radio station" in between the various advertisemnets for euro-wannabe dance clubs and station contests... To the point of "The Saint" being considered pop.. I have to question whether this is accurate. I think "too mainstream" is what people are driving at, almost to the point of drawing up similar distaste to the repetative boringness of Daft Punk. Ugh. WHOA.. here we have it. Some girls just walked by, the same girls who play nothing but R. Kelly and Spice Girls and DMB all day long, and Petrol found their ears. Both found it necessary to stop, enter the room, and not only priase the music, but ask who it was by. "Hrm. We've never heard of Orbital" - Pop rockers. Go figure. .jeremy. .......................... jeremy j roethel (JR587) xanth@3Sheep.COM pgp key id: EB6EF2C5 "life w/o smiles sucks." ::::::::::::::::::::::::::

At 11:49 PM 10/16/97 +0100, robert.merlak@ri.tel.hr wrote:

quoted 5 lines The whole Snivilisation and Insides albums are pop.

> >The whole Snivilisation and Insides albums are pop. >What is pop ?! > >Rob

a) pop isn't necessarily a BAD thing. it's not inherently bad. b) orbital isn't pop. they may be dance music, but they're not pop. in sides has no catchy hooks or easy mind-numbing singalong choruses. get over it. they're famous now. deal with it. c) pop? dmx krew is mind numbing, bubblegum, pop bullshit. a lot of "underground" music is pop. now, i didn't mean to go off on a anti-dmx rant and some pop music can be great. i consider a lot of cylob's stuff to be "pop" music. corny, but wonderful melodies. light-hearted songs. a good amount of rephlex releases are pop. albeit, distorted and odd, but pop. and i love cylob, by the way. that wasn't a slag. i hope i made sense. i'm really tired ..... np. merzbow 'eat beat eat #1' (this, by the way, is not pop) ------------------------------------------------- wells oliver : s0ewoliv@titan.vcu.edu "perhaps all pleasure is relief" : w.s.b. -------------------------------------------------

On Thu, 16 Oct 1997, wells wrote: } } a) pop isn't necessarily a BAD thing. it's not inherently bad. I totally agree. Most pop strikes me as sonic wallpaper for my ears to walk by, BUT there are always exceptions. Here's some pop artists that always grab my attention: . Magnetic Fields . Ween . Cars (early) . XTC Sorry for the non-IDMness. | E r i c | [mail] franse@engr.arizona.edu | | F r a n s | [web] http://engr.arizona.edu/~franse | "The comfort you demanded is now mandatory!" - Jello Biafra

In a message dated 10/16/97 9:35:15 PM, zcapn33@ucl.ac.uk wrote:

quoted 4 lines I can't see how Orbital could be described as a pop act before 'The Saint'.

>I can't see how Orbital could be described as a pop act before 'The Saint'. >Any tracks in particular that you'd call pop (other than 'The Saint')? > >Jon

<tsog jumps in out of sheer boredom> hmmm.... I think the entire brown album makes me naucious. Same with their last album. Personally, it's the melodies... or maybe it's the fact that they are TO melodious. To me, their music is kind of like taking a mediocre soundtrack, putting a house beat behind it, and unleashing it to legions of fans. Don't get me wrong, I don't think that their music is horible, nor do I think of it as being the worst thing human kind has done to itself, but I have become weary or it. I still think snivilisation is good though. my 2 cents t.S.o.G.

On 10/16/97 23:54:45 you wrote:

quoted 20 lines At 11:49 PM 10/16/97 +0100, robert.merlak@ri.tel.hr wrote:

> >At 11:49 PM 10/16/97 +0100, robert.merlak@ri.tel.hr wrote: >> >>The whole Snivilisation and Insides albums are pop. >>What is pop ?! >> >>Rob > >a) pop isn't necessarily a BAD thing. it's not inherently bad. > >b) orbital isn't pop. they may be dance music, but they're not pop. in >sides has no catchy hooks or easy mind-numbing singalong choruses. get over >it. they're famous now. deal with it. > >c) pop? dmx krew is mind numbing, bubblegum, pop bullshit. a lot of >"underground" music is pop. now, i didn't mean to go off on a anti-dmx rant >and some pop music can be great. i consider a lot of cylob's stuff to be >"pop" music. corny, but wonderful melodies. light-hearted songs. a good >amount of rephlex releases are pop. albeit, distorted and odd, but pop. and >i love cylob, by the way. that wasn't a slag.

and Bochum Welt too......master of the 2 minute videogame from 1983 pop sounding track. ROB **********LOGIQ'S NEW CD**************** BIG ON MARS 11 Tracks of Electronic Bliss http://www.sinless.com/logiq ****************************************

quoted 1 line I can't see how Orbital could be described as a pop act before 'The

> >I can't see how Orbital could be described as a pop act before 'The

Saint'.

quoted 6 lines Any tracks in particular that you'd call pop (other than 'The Saint')?

> >Any tracks in particular that you'd call pop (other than 'The Saint')? > > > >Jon > > <tsog jumps in out of sheer boredom> > hmmm.... I think the entire brown album makes me naucious. Same with

their

quoted 1 line last album. Personally, it's the melodies... or maybe it's the fact that

> last album. Personally, it's the melodies... or maybe it's the fact that

they

quoted 2 lines are TO melodious. To me, their music is kind of like taking a mediocre

> are TO melodious. To me, their music is kind of like taking a mediocre > soundtrack, putting a house beat behind it, and unleashing it to legions

of

quoted 1 line fans. Don't get me wrong, I don't think that their music is horible, nor

> fans. Don't get me wrong, I don't think that their music is horible, nor

do I

quoted 1 line think of it as being the worst thing human kind has done to itself, but

> think of it as being the worst thing human kind has done to itself, but

I

quoted 2 lines have become weary or it.

> have become weary or it. > I still think snivilisation is good though.

I think that Snivilisation is their worst album. For me the best is Orbital 1. But I sold em all (Orbital 1, Orbital 2 , Snivil) when I heard Snivilisation. I heard at my friends Insides, and I don't like it either. Sorry, maybe I'm fool...but I just can't stand their music.... ...Degustibus non discutandum.... respect Rob

quoted 6 lines The whole Snivilisation and Insides albums are pop.

> >The whole Snivilisation and Insides albums are pop. > >What is pop ?! > > > >Rob > > a) pop isn't necessarily a BAD thing. it's not inherently bad.

I know that, I like good pop music, like DMX Krew, Sam & Valley, J. J. Perry, Jimi Tenor, BW, Jake Slazenger, . . .

quoted 2 lines b) orbital isn't pop. they may be dance music, but they're not pop. in

> b) orbital isn't pop. they may be dance music, but they're not pop. in > sides has no catchy hooks or easy mind-numbing singalong choruses. get

over

quoted 1 line it. they're famous now. deal with it.

> it. they're famous now. deal with it.

They are famous, but I don't like them. I don't like the way of their programing, their sound. There isn't anything new in their music, their sound is too good, and I don't like nitty and clean production. I like dirtycityfuckedupnewskoolelectronica....

quoted 2 lines c) pop? dmx krew is mind numbing, bubblegum, pop bullshit. a lot of

> c) pop? dmx krew is mind numbing, bubblegum, pop bullshit. a lot of > "underground" music is pop. now, i didn't mean to go off on a anti-dmx

rant

quoted 3 lines and some pop music can be great. i consider a lot of cylob's stuff to be

> and some pop music can be great. i consider a lot of cylob's stuff to be > "pop" music. corny, but wonderful melodies. light-hearted songs. a good > amount of rephlex releases are pop. albeit, distorted and odd, but pop.

and

quoted 1 line i love cylob, by the way. that wasn't a slag.

> i love cylob, by the way. that wasn't a slag.

DMX cannot be compared with Orbital. If Orbital is dance, then what about DMX ? imo DMX is hundreds times more dance than Orbital. DMX can move ya, he got a funk....this funk makes you move. And Orbital are neither good to dance, neither good to listen I cannot help it, i don't like thier music. OK maybe I still like some of the tracks from Orbital 1.

quoted 1 line np. merzbow 'eat beat eat #1' (this, by the way, is not pop)

> np. merzbow 'eat beat eat #1' (this, by the way, is not pop)

merzbow isn't pop, and I don't like it either respect Rob

quoted 13 lines <tsog jumps in out of sheer boredom>

><tsog jumps in out of sheer boredom> >hmmm.... I think the entire brown album makes me naucious. Same with their >last album. Personally, it's the melodies... or maybe it's the fact that they >are TO melodious. To me, their music is kind of like taking a mediocre >soundtrack, putting a house beat behind it, and unleashing it to legions of >fans. Don't get me wrong, I don't think that their music is horible, nor do I >think of it as being the worst thing human kind has done to itself, but I >have become weary or it. >I still think snivilisation is good though. > >my 2 cents > >t.S.o.G.

I'm sure you didn't stutter, but I just wanted to get this straight. You said: 1. "I think the entire brown album makes me naucious." (Halycon and Lush, too?) 2. "Their music is kind of like taking a mediocre soundtrack, putting a house beat behind it." 3. "I don't think that their music is horible." I think there are some inconsistencies here. 1 + 2 should equal 3, but somehow doesn't.

Why do I like Orbital? Because they're one of the few electronic artists who are strong enough to imbue their music with emotional content. From "Belfast" to "Halcyon" to "Are We Here?" to "The Box," it has always sounded to me like they poured their state of mind into the beats, which are clever and interesting enough by themselves oftentimes, but really kick when set against the melodies. There is a legitimate contrast between Orbital and, say, AFX. Orbital's music is often (though not always) not as complex, and they don't really "mess around" as much, not really taking as many chances. But despite this, I believe they have something AFX doesn't have. We all know AFX's purported attitude towards his music, and frankly, it shows, brilliant though it is. But there is somthing to be said for the "soul" of a piece of music, and Orbital has it in spades. Often there is an association made between "emotion" and "pop," as though it cheapens the material if there is any attempt behind it to evoke a feeling. I don't feel that way personally. I also don't feel that the tools Orbital uses to produce their tracks are "pop"-based, nor generally are the results. They experiment enough to keep the music interesting, and it's not like any of it would fit in on your local hit-radio station, though it may be comparatively "simpler" than your typical Autechre track. It may not be as interesting technically, but it can be more involving on a personal level as you interact with the music, and to me, that's not a bad thing at all. Orbital compose music of vast energy and scope, and I respect them a lot. -- Adam J Weitzman -- Individual, Inc. -- http://www.individual.com -- "We need your fax number in order to respect your wishes not to receive unsolicited faxes." - a Microsoft registration screen

quoted 5 lines There is a legitimate contrast between Orbital and, say, AFX. Orbital's

>There is a legitimate contrast between Orbital and, say, AFX. Orbital's >music is often (though not always) not as complex, and they don't really >"mess around" as much, not really taking as many chances. But despite >this, I believe they have something AFX doesn't have. We all know AFX's >purported attitude towards his music

i don't

quoted 3 lines and frankly, it shows, brilliant

>and frankly, it shows, brilliant >though it is. But there is somthing to be said for the "soul" of a >piece of music, and Orbital has it in spades.

then how come i feel like smashing my stereo when i hear most orbital tracks? michael bolton puts emotion into his music. emotion means nothing at all, and i'm glad that you've got something worthwhile from orbital's music - but for a lot of us it is a heap of shit

quoted 3 lines They experiment enough to keep the music

>They experiment enough to keep the music >interesting, and it's not like any of it would fit in on your local >hit-radio station

i never heard anyting experimental in an orbital track myself, it is simply well-engineered feel-good simplistic rave music, which is played constantly on pop radio stations in britain. good luck to em i say, but it isn't fit to be placed alongside something with real atmosphere i wonder if many orbital fans buy transmat records cheerio! np - autobahn - kraftwerk

On Fri, 17 Oct 1997, siliconvortex wrote:

quoted 1 line michael bolton puts emotion into his music. emotion means nothing at all,

> michael bolton puts emotion into his music. emotion means nothing at all,

if you believe that emotion means nothing at all in music, then, apparently, you haven't the slightest idea of what art is about and should return to your first grade teacher for a lesson.

quoted 1 line i wonder if many orbital fans buy transmat records

> i wonder if many orbital fans buy transmat records

well, wait--than how can you merely appreciate detroit stuff if you believe that "emotion means nothing at all"? do you just like the bleeps, or do you actually appreciate the music and the culture/attitude around it? * a disturbance in a system. #### laerm. @voicenet.com ####

quoted 1 line WHOA.. here we have it. Some girls just walked by, the same girls who

>WHOA.. here we have it. Some girls just walked by, the same girls who

play

quoted 2 lines nothing but R. Kelly and Spice Girls and DMB all day long, and Petrol

>nothing but R. Kelly and Spice Girls and DMB all day long, and Petrol >found their ears. Both found it necessary to stop, enter the room, and

not

quoted 3 lines only priase the music, but ask who it was by.

>only priase the music, but ask who it was by. > >"Hrm. We've never heard of Orbital" - Pop rockers. Go figure.

Isn't that how it always is? I was at a sorority house recently. The type of house who all the girls like to listen to cheesy dance music and stuff like that (AQUA--Barbie Girl, comes to mind) and I put in Daft Punk for kicks. Everyone was dancing to it. But noone wanted to listen to Prodigy...I didn't even attempt to get Orbital into the cd player. Their limited intellectual capacity probably couldn't handle it. bill *****END TRANSMISSION***** ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

quoted 1 line 1. "I think the entire brown album makes me naucious." (Halycon and

> 1. "I think the entire brown album makes me naucious." (Halycon and

Lush, too?)

quoted 2 lines 2. "Their music is kind of like taking a mediocre soundtrack, putting

> > 2. "Their music is kind of like taking a mediocre soundtrack, putting

a

quoted 6 lines house beat behind it."

> house beat behind it." > > 3. "I don't think that their music is horible." > > I think there are some inconsistencies here. 1 + 2 should equal 3, but > somehow doesn't.

1 apple + 2 apples should equal 3 apples, but 1 apple seed + 2 apple cores does not equal 3 apples. ;) apple seed = the single album which makes him nauseous apple cores = the style of music, the house soundtrack so those 2 things do not mean that he thinks the music is horrible. one album may be, he doesn't like the style of the music (most likely regarding that 1 album), but he doesn't think it's horrible. it's sorta consistent, eh? chris graves

quoted 3 lines Okay,

>Okay, > >tatstes may differ. But in the whole I think Orbital is an OK-band.

They

quoted 1 line have a majority of really good kicking tracks, and live they always

>have a majority of really good kicking tracks, and live they always

know

quoted 2 lines how to put up a show.

>how to put up a show. >"The siant" was - according to me - their worst track ever, but it

probably

quoted 5 lines made a lot of people dive into the other Orbital stuff.

> made a lot of people dive into the other Orbital stuff. >their "Satan" triple CD-singles were great. > >And hey if even they aren't allowed to make a more or less "poppy" >commercial track, what with the likes of Prodigy and Chemical Bros.

then.

quoted 11 lines Both of them started of well but have now fallen into commercial-heaven

>Both of them started of well but have now fallen into commercial-heaven >where they seem to like it, but their tunes have become utter shite. > >Orbital OK, the others: well....rather not. >Met vriendelijke groeten, >With kind regards, > > >Bart De Maertelaere >Webmaster United Callers >

i have been deleting all these orbital post because i think one detail has not been mentioned yet. imho, i think some of the list members have forgotten why the 'saint' track came out. ummm, for the movie itself. bare in mind that the movie is a "spy flick", hence the "spy" theme in the 'saint' track. if you are a lover of james bond and the 50's and 60's spy music, why do you hate the 'saint'. it the same damn thing only its more orbitalized (excuse the term). so what if it is not a great track. i like it. yeah so maybe orbital and some of these other groups are being commercialized. but who are we to judge that. if we like it, we buy it. if not, we don't. also... the hartnolls are not like any other group that we discuss on the list. they have their own sound just like rdj has his. so on and so on. you piss on them because they start to take another path or try different stuff. i like everything orbital has released. some may not, whatever. one last thing... i try not to be mind set on a certain sound or a certain style. scott ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

Okay, tatstes may differ. But in the whole I think Orbital is an OK-band. They have a majority of really good kicking tracks, and live they always know how to put up a show. "The siant" was - according to me - their worst track ever, but it probably made a lot of people dive into the other Orbital stuff. their "Satan" triple CD-singles were great. And hey if even they aren't allowed to make a more or less "poppy" commercial track, what with the likes of Prodigy and Chemical Bros. then. Both of them started of well but have now fallen into commercial-heaven where they seem to like it, but their tunes have become utter shite. Orbital OK, the others: well....rather not. Met vriendelijke groeten, With kind regards, Bart De Maertelaere Webmaster United Callers

quoted 7 lines There is a legitimate contrast between Orbital and, say, AFX. Orbital's

>There is a legitimate contrast between Orbital and, say, AFX. Orbital's >music is often (though not always) not as complex, and they don't really >"mess around" as much, not really taking as many chances. But despite >this, I believe they have something AFX doesn't have. We all know AFX's >purported attitude towards his music, and frankly, it shows, brilliant >though it is. But there is somthing to be said for the "soul" of a >piece of music, and Orbital has it in spades.

I'd have to agree to an extent. The only RDJ I own is ICBYD, and while I like it, it's not an album I really feel. Maybe that album is an anomaly, but much IDMish musik has a tendency to be overly intellectualized, and in the process it leaves behind emotional content and a sweet simplicity/directness. Not that there's anything wrong with insane Sqpshr percussion--but sometimes I like the relative simplicity of a well produced "formulaic" jungle track, like a Goldie or a No U-Turn. I really like the Autechre i have because their fractured melodies and repetitive beats touch me in a way mu-ziq's banal synth thingies don't (not that I don't like them, they're just obviously cheesy and seem a counterpoint to his drums rather than anything that could stand alone, plus they get sickening after too long a sitting). I like Orbital-maybe I have a soft spot because they were an early techno exposure for me, but their melody, their simplicity sometimes just works for me. Sam

This is quite an odd opinion you have. AFX is my favorite because I find his music so emotional. Listen to pancake lizard, hedphelym. If you have i care, though, and can't feel it, we must have two very different psychologies. I've always thought that surfing on sine waves was his coldest album. It's also his most straight ahead. I doubt that AFX doesn't care about his music. I don't think he ever said he doesn't, either. Hates live shows, putting together albums, hates having to do these things in order to make a living, maybe. I don't think squarepusher's nearly as good, but his music can be lovely at times, especially when there's some basic theme breaking through the mad programming. The exact examples you 2 bring up: orbital, goldie- these are 2 examples I'd use to typify soulless music. When your style sounds so much like anybody else's, at least to me, whatever gut the music has seems insincere. They did what they think they're supposed to do to make a track with some feeling rather than just making the track and letting the feeling take care of itself.

quoted 25 lines There is a legitimate contrast between Orbital and, say, AFX. Orbital's

> >There is a legitimate contrast between Orbital and, say, AFX. Orbital's > >music is often (though not always) not as complex, and they don't really > >"mess around" as much, not really taking as many chances. But despite > >this, I believe they have something AFX doesn't have. We all know AFX's > >purported attitude towards his music, and frankly, it shows, brilliant > >though it is. But there is somthing to be said for the "soul" of a > >piece of music, and Orbital has it in spades. > > I'd have to agree to an extent. The only RDJ I own is ICBYD, and while I > like it, it's not an album I really feel. Maybe that album is an anomaly, > but much IDMish musik has a tendency to be overly intellectualized, and in > the process it leaves behind emotional content and a sweet > simplicity/directness. Not that there's anything wrong with insane Sqpshr > percussion--but sometimes I like the relative simplicity of a well produced > "formulaic" jungle track, like a Goldie or a No U-Turn. I really like the > Autechre i have because their fractured melodies and repetitive beats touch > me in a way mu-ziq's banal synth thingies don't (not that I don't like them, > they're just obviously cheesy and seem a counterpoint to his drums rather > than anything that could stand alone, plus they get sickening after too long > a sitting). I like Orbital-maybe I have a soft spot because they were an > early techno exposure for me, but their melody, their simplicity sometimes > just works for me. > > Sam >

On Sun, 19 Oct 1997, john/bergmayer wrote:

quoted 5 lines This is quite an odd opinion you have. AFX is my favorite because I find

> This is quite an odd opinion you have. AFX is my favorite because I find > his music so emotional. Listen to pancake lizard, hedphelym. If you have > i care, though, and can't feel it, we must have two very different > psychologies. I've always thought that surfing on sine waves was his > coldest album. It's also his most straight ahead.

i've always found afx's most "emotional/feeling" stuff to be his remixes or pre-icbyd days. saw1 or _surfing..._ are my favourite afx albums because of their emotion. i think i've listened to icbyd and rdj a total of 6 times (i listen to the ventolin cd2 a lot, though, and i consider boy/girl to be the best thing he's ever done)--they're just too goofy. i appreciate the concept/ideology behind these, but the music is too non-composed. i love _surfing..._. it's cold because that is the feeling--dark afx is the best. his remixes, too: seefeel, mbm, nin, curve...

quoted 6 lines The exact examples you 2 bring up: orbital, goldie- these are 2 examples

> The exact examples you 2 bring up: orbital, goldie- these are 2 examples > I'd use to typify soulless music. When your style sounds so much like > anybody else's, at least to me, whatever gut the music has seems > insincere. They did what they think they're supposed to do to make a > track with some feeling rather than just making the track and letting the > feeling take care of itself.

well, comparing orbital and goldie is kind of a stretch. only because they both sold well. that's the only connection they've got. sure, goldie sounds like a lot of other junglists, but that's not the reason why i dislike him. i like some who sound like goldie, too (no uturn et al). i also like orbital, but unlike afx, i like the newer stuff much more. _in sides_ is better than all three previous orbital albums combined, imho. (this like saying that bach and beethoven aren't worth listening to because they both sell really well and sound kind of alike.) and you like afx because he's all experimental and schiz and all, right? y'know, ventolin's got that annoying whiny sound and quoth is all wack and klangy and yeah, it's experimental, you can tell in one listen because it goes BRRKKT. well, orbital have a different type of experimentalism. it requires more than one listen. like the liner notes to mbm's _subliminal sandwich_ say, "play three times before listening". music non-obvious in it's experimentalism (i.e. weird time signatures, sliding progressions, microtonal scales) is often not given much attention by the unprepared listener. he thinks "oh, i don't have time for this" because it's qualities are not immediately appreciable. but i guarantee you that an album complex, yet subtle, in its experimentation will age far slower than one which hits you immediately. example: throbbing gristle doesn't excite me nearly as much as the first time i heard it. but nurse with wound i still appreciate and enjoy. now here's another big problem with experimental music. experimental does not always equal good. i've dealt with far too many people who refuse to listen to music merely because it's is remotely "popular". they prefer to listen to experimental music because they just have to be that cutting edge. if you asked 2 random people who their favourite band is, and one says david bowie and one says merzbow, who are you more likely to hang around with? the merzbow guy because, hey, he likes merzbow, he's gotta be COOL. you think he doesn't know that you think he's all weird and underground and interesting because he likes merzbow? right. experimental music can be appreciated because it has good, new, ideas, but that doesn't mean that's it's gonna age well. * a disturbance in a system. #### laerm. @voicenet.com ####

quoted 2 lines and you like

> and you like > afx because he's all experimental and schiz and all, right?

no. what drew me to his music was how good it was. i wouldn't say he's experimental. i'd use the word "original".

quoted 1 line AFX is my favorite because I find

>AFX is my favorite because I find

his music so emotional.

quoted 1 line The exact examples you 2 bring up: orbital, goldie- these are 2 examples

>The exact examples you 2 bring up: orbital, goldie- these are 2 examples

I'd use to typify soulless music. I guess what I mean is that there are virtues to simple formulaic "pop." As long as they aren't entirely mechanical knock-offs of other artists/hits (and I don't think any of the artists I mentioned are), the simple form can allow the artist to communicate exactly the emotion they want in an obvious, direct way (which isn't always a good thing). And I like Orbital, Goldie, etc., when i'm not in the mood for anything complex/subtle, when I'm tired or whatever and I want amplified emotion. And i think I'm tired most of my free-time--I can't sit down and *really listen* to music as often as I'd like. However, when I am wide awake, I have a place for AFX and plenty of others. Then there are artists like Tricky, Autechre, etc. whose work I can appreciate on all levels--they're my favorites. You've gotta combine the pop with the experimental, the heart with the head--then you've really got something special. Sam

siliconvortex wrote:

quoted 1 line i never heard anyting experimental in an orbital track myself

> i never heard anyting experimental in an orbital track myself

They sounded pretty experimental to me when I bought their green album when it was first released (1991?). Nowadays they may not sound that way... the same way a Kraftwerk album doesn't sound very innovative if you pretend that it was created in 1997 instead of 1978.

quoted 1 line it is simply well-engineered feel-good simplistic rave music...

> it is simply well-engineered feel-good simplistic rave music...

"Well-engineered", "feel-good" and "simplistic" don't preclude something from being fresh or innovative. (FYI, I have lost interest in Orbital since the Brown album though. I'm not sure why, and don't know if it has anything to do with lack of innovation. I know that I have always enjoyed Hardfloor - even though I can spot their formulaic sound a mile-off.) -- Q-Force qforce@holon.net http://www.holon.net/qforce/

quoted 1 line i never heard anyting experimental in an orbital track myself

>> i never heard anyting experimental in an orbital track myself

quoted 2 lines They sounded pretty experimental to me when I bought their green album

>They sounded pretty experimental to me when I bought their green album >when it was first released (1991?)

it didn't to me because i was checking out dj pierre, trax records and detroit techno 5 years earlier

quoted 3 lines Nowadays they may not sound that

>Nowadays they may not sound that >way... the same way a Kraftwerk album doesn't sound very innovative if >you pretend that it was created in 1997 instead of 1978.

doesn't it? DOES TO ME. ralf and florian is completely innovative even now and it's 25 years old, and as for the rest, well if only people were making music that original today.

quoted 1 line it is simply well-engineered feel-good simplistic rave music...

>> it is simply well-engineered feel-good simplistic rave music...

quoted 2 lines "Well-engineered", "feel-good" and "simplistic" don't p

>"Well-engineered", "feel-good" and "simplistic" don't preclude something >from being fresh or innovative.

i didn't say it couldn't be, and i don't want to carry on putting down orbital because they are really on a different tip for the reason i outlined above, basically orbital do happy fluffy music, and that is half the reason i don't get into it, the other half being their production techniques cheerio! np - the groove - global communication

siliconvortex wrote:

quoted 5 lines They sounded pretty experimental to me when I bought their green album

> >They sounded pretty experimental to me when I bought their green album > >when it was first released (1991?) > > it didn't to me because i was checking out dj pierre, trax records and > detroit techno 5 years earlier

As was I. I still would say they started off sounding experimental though. Track 1 on the green album was using all sorts of crazy sounds for percussion in a way that I'd normally associate with Autechre. Very new and unexpected to my ears which until then was mostly familiar with x0x stuff. But then again, my pre-1989 music collection consists mostly of trax, dj-international, detroit licensed compilation gear (eg: House Hallucinates, House Sound of, Acid Trax, Techno: The New Dance Sound of... etc.) so what do I know. Hey, you've just reminded me, I've got an early pommie comp called "North: The Sound of the Dance Underground" which I haven't played in maybe 5 years. I think I know what I'll be doing tonight. :-)

quoted 4 lines a Kraftwerk album doesn't sound very innovative if you pretend that it

> > a Kraftwerk album doesn't sound very innovative if you pretend that it > > was created in 1997 instead of 1978. > > doesn't it? DOES TO ME.

Innovation is about sounding NEW. If The Man Machine was created in 97 instead of 78 then it would be measured against the likes of trax, transmat, rephlex, warp, clear, etc etc... I'm not sure it'd earn an "innovative" sticker then. But maybe The Man Machine is NEW in its own way and it'd still be contributing something NEW no matter when it was released. You could have a point there.

quoted 5 lines "Well-engineered", "feel-good" and "simplistic" don't p

> >"Well-engineered", "feel-good" and "simplistic" don't preclude something > >from being fresh or innovative. > > i didn't say it couldn't be, and i don't want to carry on putting down > orbital because they are really on a different tip for the reason i outlined [earlier]

Yep. I agree. That's the whole thrust of it really. The experimental/innovative haggling doesn't change how we feel about how they sound now. I'll stop crapping-on now. :-) -- Q-Force qforce@holon.net http://www.holon.net/qforce/

siliconvortex wrote:

quoted 5 lines But there is somthing to be said for the "soul" of a

> >But there is somthing to be said for the "soul" of a > >piece of music, and Orbital has it in spades. > > then how come i feel like smashing my stereo when i hear > most orbital tracks?

Never said you had to like 'em. Just explaining why I like 'em. You're not disagreeing with me, and I already know that you don't like 'em. I was just presenting another point of view.

quoted 2 lines michael bolton puts emotion into his music. emotion means

> michael bolton puts emotion into his music. emotion means > nothing at all,

Michael Bolton (well, his production team anyways) uses a drum machine, too. That's a meaningless red herring. As for emotion meaning "nothing at all," well, there is more than clinical beats and random flourishes of sound out there to be had. It's certainly not everything, and I like a RDJ recording as much as anyone else, and I'm not saying one is better than the other necessarily. lwtcdi wrote:

quoted 4 lines [T]he only things

> [T]he only things > that matter are diversity and originality. This is what forms > so called emotion or soul in music (for me). When artists > excel at these two, the music becomes soulful.

Certainly one of the odder definitions I've seen. I'd be surprised if anyone on IDM was not looking for diverse and original music. But it's not really what I meant. I was referring to Orbital's ability to evoke a landscape of feelings and responses within an electronic-music modality. That is not a contrast to diversity and originality. (And while they may not be as "original" as some, I think they've made some pretty "diverse" stuff over the years. _In_Sides_ itself is all over the map.) -- Adam J Weitzman -- Individual, Inc. -- http://www.individual.com -- "We need your fax number in order to respect your wishes not to receive unsolicited faxes." - a Microsoft registration screen

Adam J Weitzman wrote:

quoted 2 lines Why do I like Orbital?

> > Why do I like Orbital?

Looks like some beat me to my own post :) (note: I've just caught up with about five days of IDM posts so replies may contain a few forward references)

quoted 7 lines Because they're one of the few electronic artists who are strong enough

> > Because they're one of the few electronic artists who are strong enough > to imbue their music with emotional content. From "Belfast" to > "Halcyon" to "Are We Here?" to "The Box," it has always sounded to me > like they poured their state of mind into the beats, which are clever > and interesting enough by themselves oftentimes, but really kick when > set against the melodies.

Exactly. To me there are two things that make me love music as much as I do. The first is it's ability to evoke emotion. Orbital can evokes more emotion for me than ANYONE else (regardless of genre). The way they consistently place their notes in the perfect place and make their music peak at just the right moment blows my mind. The second thing is the use of patterns. One of most satisfying things about IDM is it's emphasis on patterns. Instead of focusing solely on a melody and some lyrics, it focuses more on interactions within the song. Orbital does this like no one else, especially on In Sides (which I think is their best). Many of you (even those who like Orbital) seem to think that they are simplistic. That couldn't be farther from the truth. Their music is as complex as AFX, Autechre, you name it. By complexity I mean things like the way the melody on The Box is implied and not actual. You here one thing but if you listen closely you realize it is something else. It's analogous to an optical illusion. Or the way Out There Somewhere? evolves over almost 20 minutes from one thing to another that, if taken out of context, sounds almost completely unrelated, but put together they mesh perfectly. I've never heard any other IDM artist that can do these things as well as Orbital. If anyone has, please let me know. I hope this made some sense. It's late and the caffeine's wearing off. -Michael

quoted 25 lines There is a legitimate contrast between Orbital and, say, AFX. Orbital's

> There is a legitimate contrast between Orbital and, say, AFX. Orbital's > music is often (though not always) not as complex, and they don't really > "mess around" as much, not really taking as many chances. But despite > this, I believe they have something AFX doesn't have. We all know AFX's > purported attitude towards his music, and frankly, it shows, brilliant > though it is. But there is somthing to be said for the "soul" of a > piece of music, and Orbital has it in spades. > > Often there is an association made between "emotion" and "pop," as > though it cheapens the material if there is any attempt behind it to > evoke a feeling. I don't feel that way personally. I also don't feel > that the tools Orbital uses to produce their tracks are "pop"-based, nor > generally are the results. They experiment enough to keep the music > interesting, and it's not like any of it would fit in on your local > hit-radio station, though it may be comparatively "simpler" than your > typical Autechre track. It may not be as interesting technically, but > it can be more involving on a personal level as you interact with the > music, and to me, that's not a bad thing at all. > > Orbital compose music of vast energy and scope, and I respect them a > lot. > > -- Adam J Weitzman -- Individual, Inc. -- http://www.individual.com -- > "We need your fax number in order to respect your wishes not to > receive unsolicited faxes." - a Microsoft registration screen

Scott Cullun wrote:

quoted 1 line

>

quoted 8 lines i have been deleting all these orbital post because i think one detail

> i have been deleting all these orbital post because i think one detail > has not been mentioned yet. imho, i think some of the list members have > forgotten why the 'saint' track came out. ummm, for the movie itself. > bare in mind that the movie is a "spy flick", hence the "spy" theme in > the 'saint' track. if you are a lover of james bond and the 50's and > 60's spy music, why do you hate the 'saint'. it the same damn thing > only its more orbitalized (excuse the term). so what if it is not a > great track. i like it.

Also, I think people have forgotten that The Saint wasn't even written by Orbital. The song is 30+ years old. -Michael

Hey, More mini reviews Orbital : Style - I like this! Even like the bagpipes. Jimi Tenor : Year of the Apocolypse. I find the album version more dancey than the dance version, but hey, what do I know. Cool cover art though. And finally got around to buying some old U-Ziq : Got Bluff Limbo - Why did he stop making music like this????? -i.

On Tue, 9 Mar 1999 15:26:40 -0000 , you wrote:

quoted 1 line Orbital : Style - I like this! Even like the bagpipes.

>Orbital : Style - I like this! Even like the bagpipes.

Style itself is pretty bland, but Bigpipe Style is tops. The Old Style and New Style mixes are fairly listen-to-able, as is Mock Tudor. But the best track of the lot is definitely An Fhomhair.

quoted 2 lines Jimi Tenor : Year of the Apocolypse. I find the album version more dancey

>Jimi Tenor : Year of the Apocolypse. I find the album version more dancey >than the dance version, but hey, what do I know. Cool cover art though.

I wasn't too keen on Tenor's earlier stuff, where he came across as a somewhat hit-and-miss ironic cousin of Gary Numan. His newer, jazzier, funkier stuff is great though.

quoted 2 lines And finally got around to buying some old U-Ziq : Got Bluff Limbo - Why did

>And finally got around to buying some old U-Ziq : Got Bluff Limbo - Why did >he stop making music like this?????

All the old Rephlex posse are starting to sound a bit tired lately -- almost as if they're not bothering. Except for Leila, who's far too good for the label. -- /\/)ark headspin - http://www.sonance.demon.co.uk/

quoted 4 lines Style itself is pretty bland, but Bigpipe Style is tops. The Old Style

>Style itself is pretty bland, but Bigpipe Style is tops. The Old Style >and New Style mixes are fairly listen-to-able, as is Mock Tudor. But >the best track of the lot is definitely An Fhomhair. >

i wasn't overly impressed with either of the two singles. "mock tudor" is my favourite track and "new style" is the coolest of the "style" remixes [in an oddly laid-back way]. "an fhomhair" is way too much like a crap armand van helden remix of my liking. ;) -paul =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= = records + cd's for sale: http://www.hendrix.demon.co.uk/forsale = =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

quoted 1 line three albums? I thought there was only one (in sides).

>three albums? I thought there was only one (in sides).

actually there is four : 1 Green 2 Brown 3 Snivilisation 4 In Sides Times Fly was a single... haven't heard Style yet, I may not bother due to the adverse reveiws for it, thanks all who have commented - you've stopped me wasting my money!! is it me or is DMX Krew stuff the only thing worth getting on Rephlex at the mo? i think Skam has overtaken Rephlex as the label to get.. any comments? GV

On Wed, 10 Mar 1999, Graham Voice wrote:

quoted 4 lines haven't heard Style yet, I may not bother due to the adverse reveiws for

> haven't heard Style yet, I may not bother due to the adverse reveiws for > it, thanks all who have commented - you've stopped me wasting my money!! > is it me or is DMX Krew stuff the only thing worth getting on Rephlex at > the mo?

well, if you like DMX, pick up "style". * #### a disturbance in a system. #### laerm. @voicenet.com ##:# and then when i die/i feel i shall say/i have not understood i have not understood any of this icq: 5562209

quoted 2 lines i think Skam has overtaken Rephlex as the label to get..

> i think Skam has overtaken Rephlex as the label to get.. > any comments?

OK, you want comments? How's this: Forget both of 'em and start saving your pennies for the new Innerzone Orchestra album "Programmed". Having only heard bits and pieces (the live set last year in Detroit, the wonderful "Manufactured Memories" on the Header2 compilation), I can only say that this has the potential to be Carl Craig's best work to date. That's saying a lot, if you know *anything* about what this guy's done. It should be out in May from what I've heard. By the way, for English-boys-club IDM relevance, Squarepusher has name-checked Carl in the last interview or two that I read. BVL -- Sigma6 Interactive Media / http://www.sigma6.com bill vanloo: 3/12/99 w/ Intermodal @ io (http://www.concentric.net/~Robmoon/) dj marathon: 3/15/99 w/ dj warren lapham @ 13 Below (http://www.13below.com)

I heard the new Orbital lp tonight and was pretty disappointed. It wasn't terrible or anything, but I couldn't find one track on it that i thought was exceptional. The same can be said for the new Underworld IMHO. Cheers np Kit Clayton The Mimic and The model _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com

anyone know anything about orbital touring in the us ?