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(idm) Re: + DJs and Artists +

5 messages · 4 participants · spans 1 day · search this subject
◇ merged from 2 subjects: (idm) + djs and artists + · (idm) re: + djs and artists +
1996-02-13 19:54Peter Cevallos (idm) + DJs and Artists +
├─ 1996-02-13 23:10.GMV500 (idm) Re: + DJs and Artists +
│ └─ 1996-02-13 23:58Peter Cevallos (idm) Re: + DJs and Artists +
└─ 1996-02-13 23:44brian david antonak Re: (idm) + DJs and Artists +
1996-02-14 01:41CiM Re: (idm) Re: + DJs and Artists +
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1996-02-13 19:54Peter CevallosOn Mon, 12 Feb 1996, videla@ucsu.Colorado.EDU wrote: > Do you not see that DJing, while be
From:
Peter Cevallos
To:
Cc:
Date:
Tue, 13 Feb 1996 14:54:18 -0500 (EST)
Subject:
(idm) + DJs and Artists +
permalink · <Pine.LNX.3.91.960213142332.22851A-100000@q.paradise.net>
On Mon, 12 Feb 1996, videla@ucsu.Colorado.EDU wrote:
quoted 6 lines Do you not see that DJing, while being an artform, can be mastered by> Do you not see that DJing, while being an artform, can be mastered by > virtually anybody. Neither I nor you will never master the likes of artists > like > Aphex, LFO. ORB, (fill in the blank). You and I will never be able to > imitate these amazing minds that go behind, what I feel is, the greatest > music in the world.
I would never want to imitate anybody else.
quoted 2 lines I have some analogue pieces, but that doesn't mean I will ever be able to> I have some analogue pieces, but that doesn't mean I will ever be able to > do what these amazing minds do.
You never know...have a little faith in yourself Gil.
quoted 3 lines However, if I own the same records and> However, if I own the same records and > had a few technical skills (scratching and beatmatching) do you not see > that I can sound like the same guy that spun last night?
I disagree. A talented DJ is not just one that matches beats, scratches, and put the needle on the record. A good DJ is somebody that can create an atmosphere with the music, someone that can take you on an auditory journey, someone that can tease you and play with your emotions through the music s/he combines together.
quoted 3 lines The other thing> The other thing > that is wrong with putting these DJs on a pedestal is we lose sight of who > is making the music.
I'd argue that the DJ *is* making music by weaving tracks, elements, beats and pieces of music together and creating a totally new different fabric. The DJ is going beyond what's there and creating something new. That's the difference between a DJ and somebody pressing play or putting the needle to the record.
quoted 8 lines I went to a rave on New Years eve in LA. During the> I went to a rave on New Years eve in LA. During the > set of one DJ, the crowd next was going nuts to a Beaumont Hannant tune > from Basic Data Manipulation. . . An excellent track, that the DJ was > famous for playing. Everyone was talking about this guy as soon as his > set was done. What about Beaumont Hannant himself. He probaably worked > hours to compose this track (track #2 on basic data manipulation...).The DJ > only spent a few dollars buying the record and two seconds to put the > needle on the record.
If that's the only thing the DJ did, then in my opinion s/he was not a very good one. But if that DJ played that song in her/his own unique way, then I definitely respect that DJ as an individaul because s/he transended the original artist and synthesized something new from the original artist's work.
quoted 5 lines I do not see why some of you IDM'ers who claim to love IDM are not> I do not see why some of you IDM'ers who claim to love IDM are not > sickened when DJs are becomming more famous than the artists whose > records they play. I mean, what the hell is KEOKI doing with three CDs > out. I have never heard him spin, I will admit that. But he has more CDs > out on the market than some of the artists we talk about on this group.
I do agre with not idolizing DJs, but then again I also don't believe in adolizing artists. However, as much I do not care for Keoki's style, he sells so many C/D's because he offers music that is limited to vinyl to C/D buyers. He's giving them a marketed bad attitude, with some decent DJing skills mixing some good songs only availbale in vinyl, in a nice tight and colorful package for $15.99. Hey...you get what you pay for.
quoted 3 lines Don't you see it as a form of exploitation. the Artists doing the work> Don't you see it as a form of exploitation. the Artists doing the work > for the DJ's. It isn't the DJ who is making the people dance you idiots, > it is the people who wrote and produced the track. ^^^^^^
I don't see it as form of exploitation, and I don't see myself as an idiot either Gil. I think that music is very marketable, if you are unaware enough to not ask what track the DJ is playing, then it's your fault. I've never heard two DJs play the same song the same exact way. I see the DJ as a postmodern artist taking what the original artist created and molding it into something different with their own flavor.
quoted 3 lines Would it have made a difference if> Would it have made a difference if > I put the needle on the Beaumont record rather than the other DJ. No, the > crowd would not have noticed a thing! They loved Beaumont's music.
If the DJ was just putting songs on and not *spinning*, then no it would not have made any difference. For the most part, though, DJ's don't just put the needle on the record -- not ones that have any talent at least.
quoted 2 lines I am sorry, but there is a big mistake in giving a DJ status and not> I am sorry, but there is a big mistake in giving a DJ status and not > giving credit to the ARTISTS.
We should give credit to the ARTISTS, but we should also give credit to the DJs. Each is doing something different yet similar. There are DJs that can really take me on an auditory trip, and that's why I go out to parties and not just dance in my living room. Take care everybody, Peter Cevallos -- Better living through Phenethylamines and Tryptamines! :) URL: http://www.paradise.net/~cevallos
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1996-02-13 23:10.GMV500I never said I would want to imitate anybody, what's done is done! This has nothing to do
From:
.GMV500
To:
Peter Cevallos
Cc:
Date:
Tue, 13 Feb 1996 16:10:19 -0700 (MST)
Subject:
(idm) Re: + DJs and Artists +
Reply to:
(idm) + DJs and Artists +
permalink · <Pine.SOL.3.91.960213155928.4318B-100000@ucsu.Colorado.EDU>
I never said I would want to imitate anybody, what's done is done! This has nothing to do with the fact that if i had the same records as last night's DJ the crowd on the dancefloor would notice very little difference, hence my argument that anybody can be a DJ. ************************************ ATTENTION******************** If you people on the IDM board would read my first post with an open mind, you would all realize that it was directed at criticing the DENVER area for not giving enough props to live artists who are willing to perform. I never said DJs are worthless or anything like that. I simply stated that the artists have a lot more to offer than DJs yet for some reason the scene is dominated by the DJs who do little work when compared to the hours the artists spend perfecting/ creating their sound. For those in the Denver area, I will admit there are some cool DJs (ie Dave Alex, Ben Pound, TRES MANOS), LA has some great DJs also (i only remember one off the top of my head- R.A.W!) However, we IDM'ers should be focusing on getting the artists we talk about DAILY, mind you, a chance to show their stuff live. I am sure these guys don't want to be sitting in their bedrooms the rest of thier lives. They want some recognition too and the ravers out there need to see it! I'm done, but thanks for the responses! I never wanted to turn the IDM board into a DJ newsgroup, lets keep it real. GIL /\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\ NAME:Gil aka GMV500 E-MAIL: videla@colorado.edu WEB PAGE: yeah, right! check out my friends- http://ares.csd.net/~albumsup - http://www.uea.ac.uk/~u9506276 PHILOSOPHY: AMBIENT+BREAKDANCE= IDM FINAL WORDS: MORE BEER! \/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\\/\\/\/\/\\//\/\/\/\/\/\/\\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/
1996-02-13 23:58Peter CevallosOn Tue, 13 Feb 1996, .GMV500 wrote: > I never said I would want to imitate anybody, what's
From:
Peter Cevallos
To:
.GMV500
Cc:
Date:
Tue, 13 Feb 1996 18:58:05 -0500 (EST)
Subject:
(idm) Re: + DJs and Artists +
Reply to:
(idm) Re: + DJs and Artists +
permalink · <Pine.LNX.3.91.960213185212.28443A-100000@q.paradise.net>
On Tue, 13 Feb 1996, .GMV500 wrote:
quoted 4 lines I never said I would want to imitate anybody, what's done is done!> I never said I would want to imitate anybody, what's done is done! > This has nothing to do with the fact that if i had the same records as > last night's DJ the crowd on the dancefloor would notice very little > difference, hence my argument that anybody can be a DJ.
You still don't answer my original insictment of your argument:
quoted 9 lines However, if I own the same records and>>> However, if I own the same records and >>> had a few technical skills (scratching and beatmatching) do you not see >>> that I can sound like the same guy that spun last night? > >> I disagree. A talented DJ is not just one that matches beats, scratches, >> and put the needle on the record. A good DJ is somebody that can create >> an atmosphere with the music, someone that can take you on an auditory >> journey, someone that can tease you and play with your emotions through >> the music s/he combines together.
...and much less this one:
quoted 7 lines Would it have made a difference if>>> Would it have made a difference if >>> I put the needle on the Beaumont record rather than the other DJ. No, >>> the crowd would not have noticed a thing! They loved Beaumont's music. > >> If the DJ was just putting songs on and not *spinning*, then no it would >> not have made any difference. For the most part, though, DJ's don't just >> put the needle on the record -- not ones that have any talent at least.
Take care everybody, Peter Cevallos -- Better living through Phenethylamines and Tryptamines! :) URL: http://www.paradise.net/~cevallos
1996-02-13 23:44brian david antonakI agree with the voices that are saying being a DJ takes more than just playing the right
From:
brian david antonak
To:
Date:
Tue, 13 Feb 1996 18:44:50 -0500 (EST)
Subject:
Re: (idm) + DJs and Artists +
Reply to:
(idm) + DJs and Artists +
permalink · <Pine.SOL.3.91.960213183948.2635C-100000@oxygen.engin.umich.edu>
I agree with the voices that are saying being a DJ takes more than just playing the right records. I'm a DJ [in the traditional sense] at my school's radio station and sometimes I play IDM tracks and its alright -- but there are two other DJ's [in the more techno sense] at the station (BMG and Bubblicious) who really can make the musical fabric, the auditory trip everyone's talking about. We are worlds apart even when they're playing the same Goldie or System 7 track as I might play. It really IS an artform and they prove it to me every time I listen to their shows... Brian
1996-02-14 01:41CiMAt 16:10 13/02/96 -0700, .GMV500 wrote: >This has nothing to do with the fact that if i ha
From:
CiM
To:
.GMV500
Cc:
Date:
Wed, 14 Feb 1996 01:41:13 GMT
Subject:
Re: (idm) Re: + DJs and Artists +
permalink · <9602140141.AA05207@cpca6.uea.ac.uk>
At 16:10 13/02/96 -0700, .GMV500 wrote:
quoted 3 lines This has nothing to do with the fact that if i had the same records as>This has nothing to do with the fact that if i had the same records as >last night's DJ the crowd on the dancefloor would notice very little >difference, hence my argument that anybody can be a DJ.
Sorry - haven't you been reading all the responses to your original mail? Has any of it actually sunk in? See, the thing is, your argument would be valid if DJs used exactly the same technique *and* seq'd exactly the same tracks. Last time I checked, this isn't the case. Take two techno DJs - say Jeff Mills and Mark Broom. Mark Brooms sets are long, evolving and gorgeous - theres no trickery, just tracks that are seq'd perfectly together. The upshot? A mix that just doesn't allow you to stop dancing - each additional track adds to the intensity and mood. It doesn't let up. Now take Mills. This guy cuts in and out, backspins, changes records halfway through a mix and it all thumps beautifully. Where as the changes in Brooms sets are subtle and evolving, Mills grabs your attention straight away. The point of this paragraph is really to illustrate that if you gave Broom and Mills the same records, they'd come up with totally different sets - due to their different techniques. And thats the beauty of DJ'ing - a *good* DJ (not just the 'anyone' you allude to in your statement above) will add to a track - and, in some cases, the end result of this can sometimes be more emotional than if the track were played on it's own. Do you get it now? Good DJs don't detract from the music - they add to it. And if you think it makes the music faceless, you're not trying hard enough. Like a track? Ask the DJ (if he's not currently mixing), ask a mate, ask a stranger, go to your local record shop and ask an assistant, listen to some new records in the shop, post a description in IDM - we can help you out. Rather than make tracks faceless, a DJ can give an artist a good name. || [CiM] || s.walley@uea.ac.uk || http://www.sys.uea.ac.uk/~u9323899/