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quoted 2 lines Just where is the "acid" in acid-jazz????? I think I could handle

>> Just where is the "acid" in acid-jazz????? I think I could handle >> it if there was a bit of that little silver box thrown into it;)

Where's the "jazz" in acid-jazz at that???? Any respectfull jazz muscian will laugh at acid-jazz, if not get offended! dave wright not breathing

On Fri, 4 Aug 1995 Atlantis23@aol.com wrote:

quoted 2 lines Where's the "jazz" in acid-jazz at that???? Any respectfull jazz muscian

> Where's the "jazz" in acid-jazz at that???? Any respectfull jazz muscian > will laugh at acid-jazz, if not get offended!

I hate this kind of statement. So if a jazz musician likes acid-jazz they are disrespectful? How? If you mean it, back it up, or kindly note that it is just your own opinion, instead of slagging off an entire musical genre like that. Michael PS. I don't like acid jazz, if you were wondering. ______________________________________________________________________________ "If I wasn't a giant cheese, I'd make you pay for that remark." scrot@sans.vuw.ac.nz (Michael Upton) - Pink and the Brain ______________________________________________________________________________

quoted 2 lines My definition of 'acid jazz' (keep in mind i'm a bit of a purist and not

>My definition of 'acid jazz' (keep in mind i'm a bit of a purist and not >too fond of 'hype' labels. This is a 1995 compilation.

Just where is the "acid" in acid-jazz????? I think I could handle it if there was a bit of that little silver box thrown into it;) ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ The higher the hair, the closer to god... ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

On Fri, 4 Aug 1995, Quentin and Nicole wrote:

quoted 5 lines My definition of 'acid jazz' (keep in mind i'm a bit of a purist and not

> >My definition of 'acid jazz' (keep in mind i'm a bit of a purist and not > >too fond of 'hype' labels. This is a 1995 compilation. > > Just where is the "acid" in acid-jazz????? I think I could handle > it if there was a bit of that little silver box thrown into it;)

It's a joke. "Acid Jazz" is just a play on "Acid House", as the new breed of jazz artists was coming up as acid house was peaking in popularity...

quoted 1 line Matt

>>Matt

quoted 5 lines My definition of 'acid jazz' (keep in mind i'm a bit of a purist and not

> >My definition of 'acid jazz' (keep in mind i'm a bit of a purist and not > >too fond of 'hype' labels. This is a 1995 compilation. > > Just where is the "acid" in acid-jazz????? I think I could handle > it if there was a bit of that little silver box thrown into it;)

the name acid jazz was coined as a play on 'acid house' which was massive at the time in the UK. mikebee

On Fri, 4 Aug 1995, Quentin and Nicole wrote:

quoted 2 lines Just where is the "acid" in acid-jazz????? I think I could handle

> Just where is the "acid" in acid-jazz????? I think I could handle > it if there was a bit of that little silver box thrown into it;)

Where's the 303 in acid rock? Don't those old long haired fuckers know a THING about what's up? Sheesh you'd think they didn't even know what REAL acid was! ;) Sorry, couldn't resist. -robert --> __ _ _ _____ _____ _____ / _\ | || || _ \|_ _|/ _ \ / /_\\ | -- || |_) | _| |_ | (_) | ______________ /______\\____/|_____/|_____|\_____/ ( *electronic* )

quoted 3 lines the name acid jazz was coined as a play on 'acid house' which was

>the name acid jazz was coined as a play on 'acid house' which was >massive at the time in the UK. >mikebee

...then what are the elements that contribute acid jazz besides the occasional squelchy 303? _/ _/ _/ _/_/_/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/_/_/ _/_/ _/_/_/

quoted 6 lines the name acid jazz was coined as a play on 'acid house' which was

> >the name acid jazz was coined as a play on 'acid house' which was > >massive at the time in the UK. > >mikebee > > ...then what are the elements that contribute acid jazz besides the > occasional squelchy 303?

well that's the thing - there is no 303 in acid jazz. very rarely. 'acid jazz' is a sort of mix of rare groove, jazz, hiphop - it can mean everyone from jamiroquai (who are more funk) to dj krush (who is more hiphop) to incognito(who are more jazz) to galliano (who are everything) - it mixes it up. it really doesn't have anything to do with techno at all. and therefore not much to do with this list. :) mikebee

quoted 8 lines My definition of 'acid jazz' (keep in mind i'm a bit of a purist and not

>> >My definition of 'acid jazz' (keep in mind i'm a bit of a purist and not >> >too fond of 'hype' labels. This is a 1995 compilation. >> >> Just where is the "acid" in acid-jazz????? I think I could handle >> it if there was a bit of that little silver box thrown into it;) > >the name acid jazz was coined as a play on 'acid house' which was >massive at the time in the UK.

Wow, there's a relative lack in originality in the music AND the name...now that's pure marketing genius:P ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ The higher the hair, the closer to god... ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

quoted 9 lines Just where is the "acid" in acid-jazz????? I think I could handle

>> Just where is the "acid" in acid-jazz????? I think I could handle >> it if there was a bit of that little silver box thrown into it;) > >Where's the 303 in acid rock? Don't those old long haired fuckers know a >THING about what's up? Sheesh you'd think they didn't even know what >REAL acid was! > >;) >

Maybe if I dropped a quad and forced myself to listen to the entire Home Cookin, Mo Cookin and Still Cookin comps ( on Ubiquity by the way ) I'd be able to begin comprehension of this genre. Then again maybe I'd go INSANE!!!! ;) I think I'd be better off listening to all of the Locust alb ums instead...eeek!!!!!! ;) ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ The higher the hair, the closer to god... ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

quoted 4 lines I hate this kind of statement. So if a jazz musician likes acid-jazz they

>I hate this kind of statement. So if a jazz musician likes acid-jazz they >are disrespectful? How? If you mean it, back it up, or kindly note that >it is just your own opinion, instead of slagging off an entire musical >genre like that.

Jazz is about the real feeling/energy made by free styling, improv musicians and the synchonisty between several improv players to bring out a fat, cold/cool groove with depth, IMO. More than 90% of the 'acid-jazz' I've heard(and I'm exposed to it quite often) is nothing more than pre-programed sampled beats, samples of jazz looped to a beat and at most someone playing some sort of solo(usually some form of saxaphone). What live/improv feeling is there in that? Maybe I'm just too much of a snob purest? Who knows... I'd like to think I'm open minded... I just dont think 'acid jazz' is true to jazz's nature and roots. Good jazz? Thelonius Monk, Sun Ra, Charles Hayword, Dizzy Gilepsie, Charlie Parker, Angello Badalamenti... I'll go crawl in some hole and breed now! dave wright not breathing :) -hope I'm not offending too many people- :(

Forwarded message:

quoted 3 lines From: lui@unixg.ubc.ca (Yvonne Lui)

> From: lui@unixg.ubc.ca (Yvonne Lui) > ...then what are the elements that contribute acid jazz besides the > occasional squelchy 303?

I think, simply, that it is a hyper form of jazz. Ya know? I suppoed they could have called it hyper-jazz, but doesn't that sound silly? Besides, I've neve heard any 303s in acid-jazz, have you? - stevenJ

On Mon, 7 Aug 1995, Steven J White wrote:

quoted 4 lines I think, simply, that it is a hyper form of jazz. Ya know? I suppoed

> I think, simply, that it is a hyper form of jazz. Ya know? I suppoed > they could > have called it hyper-jazz, but doesn't that sound silly? Besides, > I've neve heard any 303s in acid-jazz, have you?

Depends what you call acid jazz, I guess, but on React's Dope on Plastic compilation they have some definitve 303 stuff going on. It's also probably a bit more relevant to this list, with stuff by Red Snapper, etc. :) Hey, that's a thought: has anyone heard any other Red Snapper stuff, and, if so, what is it like? I hear they have a full-length release coming out on Warp, but find what I've heard so far a bit so-so. Michael ______________________________________________________________________________ "If I wasn't a giant cheese, I'd make you pay for that remark." scrot@sans.vuw.ac.nz (Michael Upton) - Pink and the Brain ______________________________________________________________________________

quoted 1 line What acid jazz do you listen to?

>What acid jazz do you listen to?

I'll be honest, I really cannot NAME off acid jazz that I've listened to. A good friend of mine djs a local club and is hellbent on the stuff. I could ask him next time I see him, but not for the sake of my listening...

quoted 4 lines In the past 6 months to a year,

> In the past 6 months to a year, >acid jazz has blown up really big, eg 100% Acid jazz and the greatest acid >jazz album in the world ever compilations in ads on the telle, and the music >on them is complete dross. It's completely different from real acid jazz,

and

quoted 2 lines is just another example of an underground scene getting fucked over by the

>is just another example of an underground scene getting fucked over by the >majors.

Now, I realise this, and someday when I got some cash to blow on records I know nothing about, I'll dive in. If you could name a paticular record that really has the stamp of real jazz n acid, pass it on. I saw an add for a 'acid jazz' cd on late night cartoon network, so thats says enough!

quoted 2 lines For real acid jazz check out early releases on Acid Jazz recs and

> For real acid jazz check out early releases on Acid Jazz recs and >Mo-Wax (listen to them before you buy as the quality varies greatly just

like

quoted 3 lines every scene. Mo-Wax is now releasing jungle style tracks. Try listening to

>every scene. Mo-Wax is now releasing jungle style tracks. Try listening to >something of Ninja-tune records (anything will do, as every release is >excellent) and for more IDM stuff check out their sublabel NTone.

We'll I've heard lots of mo wax, but it's mostly been 'trip-hop' material n jungle - not really my scene. I'll definetly look through a friend of mines crate n borrow something in the future. I havent heard any ninja-tune, but I have the 'illuminati of headfuck' being mailed to me right now!

quoted 2 lines If you are against sampling then why do you s*bscribe to IDM, as sampling is

>If you are against sampling then why do you s*bscribe to IDM, as sampling is >undoubtedly at the heart of all dance music?

I never said I was against sampling. I dont really do it at all in my music - well, I sample my own insturments. Not all dance music samples other people's music, or beats. I think it takes another level of talent to be able to make your own beats w/ your own drums n drum modules . There are PLENTY of good IDM bands out there that know how to play their insturments and dont need to sample. But sampling never hurt no one! (well thats not true - you can definetly tell in sound quality wether someone has sampled something or not)

quoted 1 line As to your list of good jazz, what about Miles Davis, surely one of th

>As to your list of good jazz, what about Miles Davis, surely one of th

Excellent stuff! dave wright not breathing

quoted 19 lines Jazz is about the real feeling/energy made by free styling, improv musicians

> Jazz is about the real feeling/energy made by free styling, improv musicians >and the synchonisty between several improv players to bring out a fat, >cold/cool groove with depth, IMO. More than 90% of the 'acid-jazz' I've >heard(and I'm exposed to it quite often) is nothing more than pre-programed >sampled beats, samples of jazz looped to a beat and at most someone playing >some sort of solo(usually some form of saxaphone). What live/improv feeling >is there in that? Maybe I'm just too much of a snob purest? Who knows... I'd >like to think I'm open minded... I just dont think 'acid jazz' is true to >jazz's nature and roots. > > Good jazz? Thelonius Monk, Sun Ra, Charles Hayword, Dizzy Gilepsie, Charlie >Parker, Angello Badalamenti... > >I'll go crawl in some hole and breed now! > >dave wright >not breathing > >:) -hope I'm not offending too many people- :(

What acid jazz do you listen to? A friend of mine was in with the acid jazz crew when it started, he still keeps up with them on an occasional basis, ie gets invitted to the christmas party etc. In the past 6 months to a year, acid jazz has blown up really big, eg 100% Acid jazz and the greatest acid jazz album in the world ever compilations in ads on the telle, and the music on them is complete dross. It's completely different from real acid jazz, and is just another example of an underground scene getting fucked over by the majors. For real acid jazz check out early releases on Acid Jazz recs and Mo-Wax (listen to them before you buy as the quality varies greatly just like every scene. Mo-Wax is now releasing jungle style tracks. Try listening to something of Ninja-tune records (anything will do, as every release is excellent) and for more IDM stuff check out their sublabel NTone. Ninja-tune has excellent WWW pages, and Coldcut (who run the label) do a 'wicked' weekly radio show on Kiss 100 FM London, playing 'the broadest beats in London'. It always amazes me how they can play such a wide mix of music and I still love every tune. If you are against sampling then why do you s*bscribe to IDM, as sampling is undoubtedly at the heart of all dance music? As to your list of good jazz, what about Miles Davis, surely one of the greats? Peace and Love Nathan ################################################# #If you stand for nothing, you fall for anything# #################################################

I'd have to agree that acid jazz isn't really jazz. i've heard my share of acid jazz, mo' wax and ninjatune releases. I love the stuuf and buy everything i can get, but i also think its a misnomer to call it jazz. most of it is really just hip hop with someone playing a a live instrament over it which hardly qualifies as jazz. There is really very little free improvisation and IMO most of the horn playing is second rate. I think it becomes important to remember that when someone says they don't think there is much jazz in acid jazz it doesn't mean they are trying to disparage the sound. I love acid jazz and trip hop and have been buying stuff from coldcut since they started releasing stuff in the US and now the ninjatune and ntone stuff. I just think that if you sit down and listen to say the "Royalties Overdue" comp on Mo' Wax, which is 'jazzy' for sure, and then compare it to some straight up jazz you'd be at a loss to say their in the same class. Neither is better in any absolute sense. It just that if you program a symphonic peice on some synths and let it run are you now a classical musician? -- Mark Bowen mb@gettins.bche.uic.edu "The universe," said [the devil], "is a Ph.D thesis that God was unable to successfully defend." -James Morrow

Well, I think it's important to remember that when a lot of electronic dance fans call something "jazzy" it's in the adjective sense of the word (cool, mellow, sophisticated) and not in the noun sense of the word (improvised music). I can't really speak for a lot of acid jazz, but this seems to be the case when discussing techno, jungle et al. - Matthew "I grew up thinking that techno music is actually something that you can't imagine. That is techno at its best. If you hear something that you'd never expect to hear - that's techno. If you hear something that kind of sounds like you've heard it before, then it's not techno." - Jeff Mills

Um, excuse me but could we take this thread to another list or private e-mail. Acid Jazz is great and all but it doesn't belong here. I know I'm being a snob about the content of the list but if there was any content in this thread relavent to this list then I wouldn't complain. ObIDM: Did anybody ever answer about Scam #1? I was very curious about it. I have Gescom one and two but I'd like to know what the first Skam release is. On the Mark Broom tip, has anybody else heard the new single on New Electronica? Great stuff on there. Id give a better review but I'm out a turntable. :( All these beautiful records and nothing to play them on. -robert --> __ _ _ _____ _____ _____ / _\ | || || _ \|_ _|/ _ \ / /_\\ | -- || |_) | _| |_ | (_) | ______________ /______\\____/|_____/|_____|\_____/ ( *electronic* )

On Thu, 10 Aug 1995, Matthew Lehrer wrote:

quoted 4 lines Well, I think it's important to remember that when a lot of electronic

> Well, I think it's important to remember that when a lot of electronic > dance fans call something "jazzy" it's in the adjective sense of the word > (cool, mellow, sophisticated) and not in the noun sense of the word > (improvised music).

I'd agree, but I really think that to say "jazz" as a noun refers to improvised music is fairly sketchy, although lots of people seem to be saying so. I believe you are referring to a very small part of jazz, free jazz. *Most* jazz is, to the best of my knowledge, based on a structure, with improvised passages on top. I'd put acid jazz in that category. Often the structure in jazz is based on another song, so sampling passages to make acid jazz is consistent with that. If people want examples, I'll find them. And a little comment on Matthew's choice of .sig file, for those who are worried about acid jazz having low IDM content:

quoted 4 lines "I grew up thinking that techno music is actually something that you

> "I grew up thinking that techno music is actually something that you > can't imagine. That is techno at its best. If you hear something that > you'd never expect to hear - that's techno. If you hear something that > kind of sounds like you've heard it before, then it's not techno."

I find this an absolute joke. In the creation of genres of music, things get defined in styles by virtue of their similarities, not by their differences. If people are claiming that techno is very varied, I honestly think it is only because they are using an extremely broad definition of it. What if I had never heard Balinese gamelan, with absolutely no electronics involved whatsoever, and suddenly came across an orchestra performing that? Hey presto: it's techno at its best, according to the above idea. Sure, people like Jeff Mills (it was his quote wasn't it?) can make up their own definitions, but I don't think they're at all functional, in terms of being in line with other people's meaning of the word. I think it would be like me deciding that I'm going to use the word "motorbike" to mean "a state of forlorn, with vaguely sexual overtones". I've got every right too, but it is not at all useful. Michael (In grumpy bitter mode today :) ______________________________________________________________________________ "If I wasn't a giant cheese, I'd make you pay for that remark." scrot@sans.vuw.ac.nz (Michael Upton) - Pink and the Brain ______________________________________________________________________________

With regard to Michael's dissing of my Jeff Mills .sig... :) I don't remember what list it was, but that .sig has already touched off a mini-debate as to it's meaning, so let's not get into another one, o.k.?. The key is to just not take the quote *too* literally, as it's all in the interpretation. Definitely don't let it offend you. Yeah, it may be a bit extreme, but ultimately I just see it as praising the virtues of innovation and futurism in techno - nothing more, nothing less. Certainly that's not a bad thing, now is it? :) - Matthew "I grew up thinking that techno music is actually something that you can't imagine. That is techno at its best. If you hear something that you'd never expect to hear - that's techno. If you hear something that kind of sounds like you've heard it before, then it's not techno." - Jeff Mills

quoted 4 lines Um, excuse me but could we take this thread to another list or private

>Um, excuse me but could we take this thread to another list or private >e-mail. Acid Jazz is great and all but it doesn't belong here. I know >I'm being a snob about the content of the list but if there was any >content in this thread relavent to this list then I wouldn't complain.

I amfraid I must diagree, whilst alot of acid jazz is not IDM, some is. In an earlier post I about acid jazz, I mentioned Ninja-Tone/NTone. IMHO this is IDM, if I did not think it was I wouldn't have posted. I will atempt to back up my argument using the welcome message, which attempts to define IDM (if that is at all possible)

quoted 4 lines chair. From these two points, we can conclude that the music we're talking

>chair. From these two points, we can conclude that the music we're talking >about is intended for *listening* - it may be danceable, and it may be >influenced by current trends in more straightforward dance music, but it is >intended more for your living room than your local club.

Surely acid jazz meets this requirement.

quoted 1 line Kraftwerk, the druggy self-indulgence of Floyd, and the funky bleepiness of

>Kraftwerk, the druggy self-indulgence of Floyd, and the funky bleepiness of

I'd say that Ninja-tune releases are both drug influenced and full of funky bleepiness.

quoted 2 lines Intelligence is electronic 'Listening music' for Long journeys *quiet nights*

>Intelligence is electronic 'Listening music' for Long journeys *quiet nights* >and club drowsy dawns.

I've spent many a skint saturday night/sunday morning sitting at home listening to Coldcut's radio show, where they play alot of Ninja-tune stuff and also a lot of more 'conventional' IDM stuff, smoking 'a big fat one' I also listen to this music whilst driving and after clubbing.

quoted 1 line and another by Mixmaster Morris..

>and another by Mixmaster Morris..

Mixmaster Morris is a regular guest on the show, and has been known to play Ninja-tune/NTone releases.

quoted 9 lines So as to prevent the list from becoming a hopeless barrage of flame

> So as to prevent the list from becoming a hopeless barrage of flame >mail over what is and is not "intelligent", the official stance will >be that all opinions are to be respected - you are welcome to disagree >and post your disagreements, but outright flames and name-calling are >to be avoided. However, if you declare that "Rozalla is intelligent >dance music", you should be willing and able to back it up - not just >"because it obviously is".. Just remember that your mail goes into >approximately 600 mail boxes worldwide therefore unrelated or unneccessary >posts should be kept to an absolute minimum.

I hope I have backed up my opinion, so please respect it.

quoted 1 line Listen with an open mind.

>Listen with an open mind.

I think this says it all Peace and Love Nathan ################################################# #If you stand for nothing, you fall for anything# #################################################