IDM Mailing Archive

On Sat, 6 May 1995 13:46:21 -0700, Jon Drukman <jsd@cyborganic.com > wrote:

quoted 4 lines Someone

> Someone >>even said the true workhorse of Detriot is the Prophet 5 I think. > >well whoever said that is full of crap.

I can back Jon up on this one. prophet 5s were and mostly still are out the price league of the standard working techno musician, past and present. The 303 was and still is the workhorse through and through, tho it has become out of the price league for most techno musicians. The prophet 5 was the workhorse of new wave and early synth pop. ;> Rob http://www.umn.edu/nlhome/m211/feed/ (under perpetual construction) "The patch in fig. 2-23 gives the sound of a cracking whip. (Why don't you try to synthesize some screams to go along with it?)" - Roland Model 104 Sequencer Manual

While the flamethrower's out, I'd like to point out how "Antacid" is utterly ruined by that damn 303 SAMPLE. I'm sorry, but the sound of the filters on Messrs. Pritchard & Middleton's sampler opening and closing is a poor substitute for a real 303. To think, this could have been one of the all time great acid tracks. Instead, I'm already getting tired of it because it doesn't have that...SQELCH. chill

Well I took another listen to the Antacid EP to see what all the fuss is about. I listened through it to see if I could tell if there were 303 things going on that a sampler couldn't do and I did. I own and operate a 303 so my experience is first hand for those who care to flame... First off there are resonance changes on the 303 in the Antacid track which a sampler couldn't do in the same manner as a 303. Secondly there is a second instrument that is playing the 303 pattern on top of the 303 sound. The glide is EXACTLY the same on this pattern as the 303 and no other sequencer on the planet can come close to the 303 sequencer, so I'm inclined to believe that this second instrument is being CV'd by the 303 at the same time. Again, a sampler could not do this. My vote is that it is a real 303. I don't know what the big deal was if it wasn't anyway because it still is a fine record regardless. I do agree hawever that the 303 pattern isn't a terribly exciting one and it's use isn't extraordinary. Mad Mike (from UR) was mentioned but you have to realize that he can program the 303 and 909 like no other. He's a true guru. I think the only person that can come close is Dan Curtin. (check out Apogee on Peacefrog/Metamorphic if you have any doubts) And of course the godfather of acid is Armando. (check out Land of Confusion or World Unknown if you have any doubts) And to answer the question about acid having to be a 303? Well the answer is YES!!! 303 = acid and acid = 303. That's just the way it is. PERIOD. End of story. All acid heads know that there is no replacement for the TransistorBass. Cult? Religion? Well who knows, but when ya got the bug... -robert ______________________________________________*AudioElectronic*_____ "UFO: Starting with the MG Frequency knob at 0, sonic explorers \ as you turn up the knob, \ the UFO will sound like it is taking off." -> MS-20 manual ____\

Sometime back I claimed that Link's "Antacid" didn't use a 303. Well, looks like I was right. Following is a message from Ben Middleton, Tom's brother: Date: Mon, 2 Oct 1995 18:07:12 +0100 (BST) From: cs92bbm@brunel.ac.uk Subject: Business...

quoted 5 lines (No 303 in antacid... I believe they used their Alpha Juno 2...)

>(No 303 in antacid... I believe they used their Alpha Juno 2...) > >[ Ben Middleton cs92bbm@brunel.ac.uk ] >[ Interact with global communication at ] >[ http://www.brunel.ac.uk:8080/~cs92bbm/gc.html ]

So there! :P Che

quoted 5 lines So is acid something that cannot be done without a 303? Or is the 303

>So is acid something that cannot be done without a 303? Or is the 303 >merely the fave instrument for making acid tracks? I dig a lot of acid >music (mostly UR's acid though), but even assuming they use a 303 the >sound to me was never so much about the -303- as much as that bubbling, >squeaking, etc., sweeping filters, tweaking, and obtuse lines.

uh, well, that's exactly what the 303 does. and UR are the masters of the 303 line. no question.

quoted 4 lines Obviously

>Obviously >the 303 is extremely well-suited to this, but other instruments can >generate this stuff as well, albeit not exactly as the 303 does. Someone >even said the true workhorse of Detriot is the Prophet 5 I think.

well whoever said that is full of crap. the whole thing about techno, the whole reason it sounds the way it does is based on economics, as usual. back in the day when this stuff was starting out, people were giving away 303's and 606's. "real musicians" hated them. they didn't do what they were "supposed" to do - which was to provide bass & drums for guitar players who wanted to be able to practice without a band. of course the 303 sounds like total crap for rock bass and the 606... let's not even get into it. pop superstars could afford linn drums and prophet 5's (both around $1500 i think when they debuted). poor black dance producers could afford 303's and 606's (given away free with cereal boxes (well, comparitively)). put them together and you've got a nice minimal electro acid track. listen to a seminal track like "acid trax" (phuture)... 707 and 303, and that's it. they sync together quite nicely, all you gotta do is hit START on the 707 and the 303 bubbles away in perfect sync quite happily. two pieces of gear, one cable for the sync signal, plus a tiny line mixer and a tape recorder... music on the cheap, the true roots of techno. -- Name: Jon Email: jsd@cyborganic.com Web: http://www.cyborganic.com/~jsd

quoted 6 lines back in the day when this stuff was starting out, people were giving away

> back in the day when this stuff was starting out, people were giving away > 303's and 606's. "real musicians" hated them. they didn't do what they > were "supposed" to do - which was to provide bass & drums for guitar > players who wanted to be able to practice without a band. of course the > 303 sounds like total crap for rock bass and the 606... let's not even get > into it. pop superstars could afford linn drums and prophet 5's (both

Hello, Does anyone know why Roland discontinued the 303, 808, 909, et.al? They have to know that there's a huge underground market for them.... Howard

On Sun, 7 May 1995, Howard Cheng wrote:

quoted 1 line Does anyone know why Roland discontinued the 303, 808, 909, et.al?

> Does anyone know why Roland discontinued the 303, 808, 909, et.al?

There was a gap of about 5 years between when they stopped selling these things and when they started showing up cheaply in pawn shops, and became the basis for so many of the records we listen to. This topic comes up regularly on the Analogue Heaven mailing list, but in a nutshell... 1. Because these instruments use discrete circuits rather than the "synth on a chip" found today in most mass-market electronic instruments, they are considerably more expensive to manufacture. 2. In a business sense, its more lucrative for Roland to focus on the home sample-playback and soundcard market than for them to devote resources to what is, in today's market terms, a "fringe" element of the music-making community -- people who want tweakable knobs and funny sounds from their instruments, rather than a "super accurate piano sample." on now: X-102 ----------------------------------------------------------------- dave walker, detroit art services marmoset@conch.aa.msen.com me & my robots