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CULTURE? WHAT CULTURE?

9 messages · 7 participants · spans 6 days · search this subject
1994-11-04 21:37CULTURE? WHAT CULTURE?
1994-11-05 14:25Re: CULTURE? WHAT CULTURE?
└─ 1994-11-08 15:12Dave Walker Re: CULTURE? WHAT CULTURE?
1994-11-05 20:28Lazlo Nibble CULTURE? WHAT CULTURE?
└─ 1994-11-05 21:30Greg Earle Re: CULTURE? WHAT CULTURE?
1994-11-10 05:19Pete Ashdown CULTURE? WHAT CULTURE?
1994-11-10 05:19Pete Ashdown Re: CULTURE? WHAT CULTURE?
1994-11-10 20:54Michael Wertheim Re: CULTURE? WHAT CULTURE?
1994-11-11 06:16Re: CULTURE? WHAT CULTURE?
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1994-11-04 21:37mr808@teleport.com>DAT is fine but there is no substitute for watching some one play WHY would you want to w
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Fri, 4 Nov 1994 21:37:55 +0000
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CULTURE? WHAT CULTURE?
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quoted 1 line DAT is fine but there is no substitute for watching some one play>DAT is fine but there is no substitute for watching some one play
WHY would you want to watch someone "play"? At best, it's a series of mechanical movements; at worst, it's mechanical movements plus theatrical wanking. Does it convey ANY useful information? The following is a crosspost from alt.rave which sums up my feelings on live performance & music much more eloquently than I could have put it...
quoted 314 lines Article from the WEEKEND AUSTRALIAN dated January 16-17> > > > Article from the WEEKEND AUSTRALIAN dated January 16-17 > > > ASCIIfied by David Smith > > > > > > CULTURE? WHAT CULTURE? > > > >The niche appeal of today's dance music suggests that a pop culture >which united the young has never existed. DAVID BREARLEY argues that >the death of the three-minute pop song is a serious threat to some of >the most powerful institutions of our time. > > Every generation struggles with it's children's music. Fortysomethings >had a problem with Elvis in the 50's, with the Rolling Stones in the 60's, >and with the Sex Pistols in the 70's. But today's music is a giant >headache for all except the very, very young: anyone over 25 is likely >to feel alienated. > > The difference between Elvis, the Stones and the Pistols, and what is >happening today, is enormous - evolution in the first case, revolution >in the second. The modern dance sound represents a complete reassessment >of western musical principles and reflects a profound change in its >audience. Pop is well and truly dead - as a style of music, as a way >of thinking, and as a system of indentification. > > When parents first heard Elvis and said 'It's not music', all they >really meant was : 'It's loud, it's crude and I don't like the way that >young man moves his hips.' When they heard the Stones and said 'It's not >music', all they really meant was: 'It's noisy, it's lewd and I don't like >the way that young man moves his lips.' When they heard the Pistols and >said the same thing, all they really meant was: 'Those people can't even >play, and I don't like that young man.' > > > But when today's parents hear techno or hip hop and say 'It's not music', >they mean exactly that. And in certain vital respects they're right, >because much of what we understand to be music is absent - junked, >dismissed by the young dance composers as an irrelevance. > > > Think of beat music - rock, rock 'n' roll', rockabilly, blues, country, >Mowtown, soul, funk, bubblegum, psychedelia, surf, glam, disco, punk, >thrash, new wave, new romantic..the lot - as a combination of two elements: >the backbeat and the 12-note tonal system. These were the pillars of any >Sex Pistols song, as surely as they were the foundation of the most >complex opus by, say, Led Zepplin or Queen. > > > Not any more. The dance movement, or at least the progressive wing of >it, has freed itself of the 12-note tonal system. In doing so it has >rejected a glorious repertoire that stretches back at least to Bach >and a theory which Pythagoras helped develop two-and-a-half millennia >ago. Tune as we know it is gone, and harmony with it, All that remains >is the beat: 20 hertz, 120 times a minute - that's the prescription. >The sound of the 90's, a bloody loud kickdrum, is so hypnotic it acts >as a giant safety net, accommodating any other sound imaginable. >Pantonality has arrived. All sound, pitched or unpitched, has become >music. > > > Hip hop by the likes of Public Enemy has no tune and therefore offers >none of the comfort and reassurance we expect from beat music. Without >a tonal system, the songs cannot resolve themselves; changes from >verse to chorus, where they still exist, are not signposted; the point >at which a song begins and ends becomes arbitrary. It's a new headspace. >Ears are either born to it, retuned or obsolete. > > > This is problematic stuff. The death of the three-minute pop song, and >the erosion of the entire pop mentality, is a serious threat to some of the >most powerful institutions of our time. Our best active songwriters, pop >craftsmen such as Neil Finn, are finding it harder to address young people >than their forebears did only a decade ago. Obviously, anyone with a >product to sell and a young market in mind - from sitcom scripters to >soft-drink manufacturers - has to come to terms with the new headspace. > > > The first step is to admit it exists. The six major record companies, >the ones with the most to lose, are fighting a desperate rearguard action >against change, using nostalgia as their weapon. The number one album in >this country for 1992 was 'Jesus Christ Superstar' while Michael Crawford's >collection of Andrew Lloyd Webber tunes was number eight. Jimmy Barnes and >The Commitments weighed in at three and 10 respectivley with compilations >of soul standards.Neil Diamond's greatest hits package was the year's >seventh-best seller, Abba's was the 12th, and Queen placed 11th and 16th >with two such offerings. Older record buyers replacing classic vinyl with >compact discs also accounted for a considerable volume of back-catalogue >sales. > > > Venues reflect the trend. Entertainment centres in the capital cities >have become museums for pop dinosaurs such as Elton John and Rod Stewart, >while the pub rock circuit is host to a swill of tribute bands dedicated >to replicating the look and sound of old chestnuts like Meatloaf, the Doors >and (of all things) Bad Company. Australia's very own Abba tribute, Bjorn >Again, enjoyed such heady success in Scandinavia last year it is rumoured >the members of the real thing are considering a reunion... > > > All this belies the fact that the new music - 'tuneless' dance music >has a strong and growing following. Rap, in which the tonal relationship >between vocal and instrumental is completely broken down, is no longer >an exclusively black phenomenon. The charts are full of it. > > > Public Enemy,whose message is aggressively at repressed black Americans, >have played to a huge Australian audiences twice in the past five years. >Their music is a collage in which sirens, wails and scratches take >precedence over traditional instruments, and sounds are mixed by intuition >rather than according to a recognized tonal system. > > > Single dance parties attract tens of thousands through DJ's and designers >whose role is to set a mood and maintain it, create a trance atmosphere, >avoid the series of stops and starts, fast songs and slow that we associate >with rock concerts and radio formats. The tune is not altogether extinct >- >you'll still hear a little Kylie or Madonna at the bigger dance parties - >but it's fast becoming so.Techno raves feature music that would make >little sense to, say, Paul McCartney, much less to composers of earlier >generations and much less again to casual listeners. > > > Almost independent of the mass media, the dance movement is a healthy >and complex beast with its own networks, subcultures and sub-subcultures. >Asking some kids if they like dance music is as about as square as asking >if they like pop. 'Which' dance music? House? Deep house, Italo house, diva >house? Acid? Techno? Hardcore? Trance, Breakbeat, Belgian, Detroit? Dub >reggae? 'Which dance music'? > > > The divisions prove dance has become far more than a fad, and they >present a dilemma for the record companies. Niche markets are notoriously >hard to attack from a global perspective. > > > It's not hard to argue that pop music had run it's course by 1970. It's >signature instrument, the guitar, had already reached its limits in the >hands of Jimi Hendrix. Mowtown had elevated pop songwriting to a level of >sophistication never seen since. The major movements had established >themselves; all that remained was for second-generation rockers to combine >and cross-pollinate existing styles. > > > Punk was an admission that rock was out of steam, but far from being the >revolution, it was hijacked and sold off as a commodity. Punk musicians >played the same instruments, used the same chords, sometimes even sang the >same songs as their predecessors. Their revolution was all attitude and >no substance; five years later the mainstream was lamer than ever. > > > Dance, a real revolution in purely musical terms, exposes punk for the >false promise it was. The record companies don't understand it as music >or as a product. They don't know how to exploit it. The music played at >raves is pressed on vinyl, at least half of it in extremely limited >editions. Moreover, those pressings are not the finished product - it's >what the DJ does with them, how he mixes them and what he overdubs that >counts. Then follows the tricky issue of context; the music is designed >to be played at high volume in unseated arenas under spectacular lights >and - here's the ugly bit - on a headful of drugs. There's not much point >buying a copy to play in your bedroom after school. > > > Clearly, dance says pop is dead as music. It also says pop is dead as >a set of beliefs. Radical shifts in art reflect radical shifts in society, >and the appeal of dance music is symptomatic of a rejection of pop values >that were thrust on young people four decades ago. > > > There was a time earlier this century when teenagers had no identity, >meaning they had no money. When they finally established themselves as >a financial force certain false assumptions were made; a market became >a demographic almost overnight. Commercial necessity and the media's >tendency to generalise gave rise to a false teenage profile, the myth >of a vital homogeneous mass untied by common hopes and beliefs - a pop >culture. Critics of today's divided youth speak of those years with great >reverence, recalling a time when everyone was doing the twist, or later >when everyone was dropping acid, when everyone was tuning in, turning on >and dropping out. > > > But were they? Or was the pop culture part fantasy? Is it possible that >we are dealing here with the illusion of community rather than community >itself? The Beatles, probably the most conspicuous single embodiment of >pop, played to 10,000 empty seats at Shea Stadium in the summer of 1966; >days later 11 fans greeted them at Seattle airport. Even allowing for John >Lennon's 'bigger than Jesus' remark earlier that year, those are pretty >ordinary turn-outs - hardly the stuff of a united teen movement sharing >a single pop consciousness. Mid-60s footage of Beatles and Stones concerts >shows two seperate audiences, one distinctly younger than the other. > > > In popular mythology, Elvis was a rocker and so was Cliff Richard. The >simple truth is they were poles apart - if you pitched them both at >today's youth they'd tell you straight: Elvis had balls and Cliff was a >pussy. But in the late 50s and 60s they were both new phenomena; >teenagers had not yet learned how to dispose of the disposable, and Cliff >somehow found a place in rock history. Today there's no shortage of pap, >but teens and even the mass media have learned to recognize it. Nobody >believes a group such as Girlfriend is of any significance whatsoever. >as for Michael Bolton, the modern equivalent of Cliff Richard, it's >highly unlikely he has a single fan under the age of 25. > > > Today's teenage society is infinitely more sophisticated than previous >ones. It has divided and sub-divided into evermore discriminating factions- >niche markets - and with the rejection of specific musical styles comes a >rejection of specific characteristics which were once thought to be >inherently 'pop'. The first of of these is the myth of a united movement. > > > I believe there has been a subtle shift in the old "world is good/world >is bad" dichotomy, and that shift has exposed many of the falsehoods that >went with pop. Our happy-endings culture, a cornerstone of the pop ethic >doesn't make as much sense to teenagers as it once did. Youth might have >lived under the threat of Armageddon in the 60s, but at least the danger >was a tangible one. Woodstock represented an age of great optimism, a time >when young people could visualise a carefree, post-nuclear world of their >own making. Well, where is it? The Woodstock generation are now masters >of their own universe, admittedly with a greatly reduced nuclear threat, >but is it the Utopia they expected? > > > The most popular song of the post-punk counter-culture, the song voted >to No 1 year after year by 2JJJ listeners, is Joy Division's 'Love Will >Tear Us Apart': "When routine bites hard, And ambitions are low, When >resentment rides high, And emotions won't grow, Love, Love will tear us >apart." Always in the Top 20 is the Boys Next Door's 'Shivers': "I've >been contemplating suicide..." What is this if not a rejection of the >happy-endings culture? And what is unresolvable music - music which has no >tonal logic, which cannot end in the right chord-if not a rejection of >the happy-endings culture? > > > In rejecting the happy ending - or in the case of the dance crowd, >replacing it with a more realistic drive for hedonism - you call into >question at least half the baggage that goes with pop. The very idea >that you can buy a neat little slice of pop and take it home with you >becomes less appropriate. > > > So does the star system. In serious dance circles, the people at the >top of the tree are often faceless. The hottest DJ's in the world are >Sasha and Joey Beltram, but can anyone picture them? The hottest DJ in >Australia is Pee Wee Ferris, but can anyone picture him? Certain British >"groovemasters" pride themselves on their anonymity. And recent surveys >suggest Australian school children look to their parents for role models; >girls might like Kylie and Madonna, but only in context; they don't see >Kylie and Madonna as embodiments of their own aspirations. > > > Revolutionary music does not happen by accident and should not be >dismissed out of hand. Paul Williams, the doyen of all rock critics, >wrote this in the 80s: "The danger for people of my generation (I turn >38 next week)and even for the generations that follow us is that we may >be so attached to past glories - experienced first-hand or just heard >tell of - that we miss the new and different glories of the present >moment as we stubbornly hold on to and hold out for the return of the >way it once was." > > > The concert hall had a similar problem early this century. By 1908, >Schoenberg had accepted that the notion of a key signature was purely >academic. He dropped it and a large part of the audience dropped him. >Five years later the creme of Parisian society was reduced to spitting >at each other, driven wild by the rhythmic excesses of 'The Rite Of >Spring'. Yet only a year after that, another (younger) Parisian audience >gave Stravinsky a standing ovation for the same work. By 1940, the >greatest of all populists, Walt Disney, considered it a fitting soundtrack >for 'Fantasia'. > > The jury is still out on Schoenberg, but what is now widely accepted >is that he was no knee-jerk reactionary. He was a legitimate product of >his time, his theory was beyond reproach, and his music was a considered >response to the richness and complexity of Wagnerian orchestration. >Nobody, not even his greatest detractor, doubts that he changed 20th >-century music for ever. > > Dance music will come to be understood in the same way: problematic, >unpleasant maybe, but legitimate. And in time its most radical elements >will be recognised as progress via tradition. The accent on beat is what >happens when black Americans lean on their African roots, and in the late >20th century it sounds right to young people. Even the idea of sampling, >appropriating slabs of other people's music, is nothing new - Satie >quoted Chopin and Schubert in his own piano pieces. > > For many devotees of orchestral music, Schoenberg represents the >apocalypse; jazz purists strike the same wall with Miles Davis' 'Bitches >Brew'. They expect today's composers to respect earlier traditions to >the letter, and in doing so they limit themselves to a stagnant repertoire. >In 1993, beat music reaches its own Rubicon. > > > >David Brearley writes regularly for The Australian on popular music > >Posted without permission > >-- >James Mc Parlane ( ) God/Emperor- Minimum Safe Distance ( ) Graphics/Video >Dept of R&D ALIFE X Voice +(61-2)692-0340; fax 552-6655 X C/C++ source > nanoTECHno ( ) Data +(61-2)552-6670 to 14.4k 24hrs ( ) PC/AMIGA/NEWTON >- Loosely Coupled Super Computing Project - Biological Computing Division - > >
Fuck the past...get ON with the future! PEAÇEOUT MR-808 Now on Sony: Texturology - Beaumont Hannant
1994-11-05 14:25mr808@teleport.comFrom private email - sender's identity withheld unless he wishes to reveal it.... >Does th
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Dave Walker
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Sat, 5 Nov 1994 14:25:05 +0000
Subject:
Re: CULTURE? WHAT CULTURE?
permalink · <199411052214.OAA12993@teleport.com>
From private email - sender's identity withheld unless he wishes to reveal it....
quoted 5 lines Does this need to be spelled out in crayon? Every worthwhile live>Does this need to be spelled out in crayon? Every worthwhile live >performance I've ever been to succeeded because a genuine interplay was >achieved between performer and audience (or DJ and dancers)... etc. The >capability for interaction beyond a preset script is what makes even a >live-sequenced performance inherently more interesting than a DAT playback.
I agree with all of this. My first question concerning live performance is: How "live" must a performance be a valid performance? At one extreme you have total improvisation, at the other you have DAT playback w/ no additions to the original musical material. Is a performer singing over a backing DAT valid? Is Orbital punching sequences in and out & changing the mix without touching a keyboard valid? Is a DJ spinning records on two 1200s valid? Are they somehow less valid than a Bluegrass band because most or all of the material is prerecorded?
quoted 9 lines I've seen Vapourspace do PA's three times now. Every performance was>I've seen Vapourspace do PA's three times now. Every performance was >completely different -- not because he did a silly dance or played air >guitar, but because he he fed off the energy of the dancers, tweaking >sounds and sequences in response to what he was creating and what the >audience was giving back to him. Mark Gage is a bespectacled funny >looking geek -- no one was standing looking at him because "it's the >concert thing to do" -- rather people were orgiastically humping >speakers, staring into the lights as their tabs kicked in, whatever: >because he was able to accurately engage the vibe and respond to it.
Yes - this is the way it should be. I went to see Autechre in Seattle, where everyone, except myself & possibly one other person, were standing around gawking at the "band" punch in tracks on their R8 move mixer faders, tweak synths, and the usual techno boffin antics. They stormed off stage after 20 minutes, presumably because only two people were dancing. This leads to my second question, which is: Is there REALLY a need to have people on a stage? Couldn't they just as easily be located in the DJ booth? I feel that if we removed the visual focus presented by having performers on a stage, the audience will focus more on 1) each other and how everyone is connected and 2) the music and how it is affecting them.
quoted 2 lines mr. i read the crosspost and there isn't a damn inch of bandwidth on>mr. i read the crosspost and there isn't a damn inch of bandwidth on >playing live vs playing dat.
Well, I feel like the shift in musical tastes are intimately connected w/ the imminent shift in the performer/artist relationship. More on this later.
quoted 5 lines Well, I do. The best "live performance" in the Techno realm I've ever seen >Well, I do. The best "live performance" in the Techno realm I've ever seen was >seeing Richard James hunched over a mixing board doing live remixing of his own >material. I got to hear unreleased music and familiar music in an altered >format, and since the realm of the Rave is that of the DJ doing mixing, it made >absolutely perfect sense in that context.
I agree that this is a very valid performance, but did you need to SEE it to enjoy it? PEACEOUT MR-808 Now on Sony: Blood Music remix - Global Communication
1994-11-08 15:12Dave WalkerOn Sat, 5 Nov 1994 mr808@teleport.com wrote: I said: > >Does this need to be spelled out i
From:
Dave Walker
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Intelligent Dance Music List
Date:
Tue, 8 Nov 1994 10:12:59 -0500 (EST)
Subject:
Re: CULTURE? WHAT CULTURE?
Reply to:
Re: CULTURE? WHAT CULTURE?
permalink · <Pine.3.88.9411080920.C18659-0100000@garnet.msen.com>
On Sat, 5 Nov 1994 mr808@teleport.com wrote: I said:
quoted 9 lines Does this need to be spelled out in crayon? Every worthwhile live> >Does this need to be spelled out in crayon? Every worthwhile live > >performance I've ever been to succeeded because a genuine interplay was > >achieved between performer and audience (or DJ and dancers)... etc. The > >capability for interaction beyond a preset script is what makes even a > >live-sequenced performance inherently more interesting than a DAT playback. > > I agree with all of this. My first question concerning live performance is: > > How "live" must a performance be a valid performance?
Well, for *me*...
quoted 1 line Is a performer singing over a backing DAT valid?> Is a performer singing over a backing DAT valid?
I happen to think this is pretty cheesy, but _50,000,000 Madonna Fans Can't Be Wrong_ (visualize gold lame), right?
quoted 2 lines Is Orbital punching sequences in and out & changing the> Is Orbital punching sequences in and out & changing the > mix without touching a keyboard valid?
Certainly.
quoted 1 line Is a DJ spinning records on two 1200s valid?> Is a DJ spinning records on two 1200s valid?
Completely.
quoted 2 lines Are they somehow less valid than a Bluegrass band because> Are they somehow less valid than a Bluegrass band because > most or all of the material is prerecorded?
Beats me, I don't do bluegrass.
quoted 2 lines Is there REALLY a need to have people on a stage? Couldn't they just as> Is there REALLY a need to have people on a stage? Couldn't they just as > easily be located in the DJ booth?
Well, I like to _see_ the performers, but I've got a selfish motive -- I'm trying to make music myself, and I want to see what kind of equipment they're using, how it's hooked together, etc. One of the cooler PA's I've seen was Jeff Mills with his keyboards set up next to his 1200's and mixer, mixing tracks from vinyl in with his live and sequenced stuff seamlessly. On the other hand, with a DJ, like Mills, there is a performance aspect to his turntable mixing -- anyone whose ever seen/heard Mills spin will concur that his technical facility with the turntables (near instantaneous mixes, crazy transitions, scratches, etc.) is as big a draw as the sonic aspect. Now on: GBV "Gold Star For Robot Boy" ----------------------------------------------------------------- dave walker, detroit art services _ marmoset@msen.com absolutely sweat, marie <A HREF="http://www.msen.com/~marmoset/">Dave Walker</A>
1994-11-05 20:28Lazlo Nibble>> DAT is fine but there is no substitute for watching some one play > > WHY would you wan
From:
Lazlo Nibble
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Intelligent Dance Music
Date:
Sat, 5 Nov 1994 13:28:59 -0700 (MST)
Subject:
CULTURE? WHAT CULTURE?
permalink · <9411052029.AA03656@RT66.com>
quoted 5 lines DAT is fine but there is no substitute for watching some one play>> DAT is fine but there is no substitute for watching some one play > > WHY would you want to watch someone "play"? At best, it's a series of > mechanical movements; at worst, it's mechanical movements plus theatrical > wanking. Does it convey ANY useful information?
If I'm not going to get either a musical interaction with the audience or some kind of theatrical experience, I really don't see the point in shelling out the bucks and spending the evening going to a "live performance". If all an artist is going to do is plug in the DAT deck and mime over their keyboards, hell, I could have just bought the CD and listened to it at home. -- ::: Lazlo (lazlo@rt66.com)
1994-11-05 21:30Greg Earle>>> DAT is fine but there is no substitute for watching some one play >> >> WHY would you
From:
Greg Earle
To:
Date:
Sat, 05 Nov 1994 13:30:42 -0800
Subject:
Re: CULTURE? WHAT CULTURE?
Reply to:
CULTURE? WHAT CULTURE?
permalink · <9411052130.AA17302@isolar.Tujunga.CA.US>
quoted 9 lines DAT is fine but there is no substitute for watching some one play>>> DAT is fine but there is no substitute for watching some one play >> >> WHY would you want to watch someone "play"? At best, it's a series of >> mechanical movements; at worst, it's mechanical movements plus theatrical >> wanking. Does it convey ANY useful information? > > If I'm not going to get either a musical interaction with the audience or > some kind of theatrical experience, I really don't see the point in shelling > out the bucks and spending the evening going to a "live performance".
Well, I do. The best "live performance" in the Techno realm I've ever seen was seeing Richard James hunched over a mixing board doing live remixing of his own material. I got to hear unreleased music and familiar music in an altered format, and since the realm of the Rave is that of the DJ doing mixing, it made absolutely perfect sense in that context. He was then followed by Messiah doing the silly costumes/mime-over-the-keyboards/hey-everybody-raise-your-hands-in-the-air shtick, thus providing the virtual antithesis and thereby the canonical case of What Not To Do For "Live Performance" In A Techno Setting. I also suspect that at the Mixmaster Morris/Pete Namlook show in San Francisco, there might not have been much "musical interaction with the audience" or "theatrical experience", but I have yet to hear from anyone that went who didn't think that they had an absolutely wonderful time.
quoted 2 lines If all an artist is going to do is plug in the DAT deck and mime over their> If all an artist is going to do is plug in the DAT deck and mime over their > keyboards, hell, I could have just bought the CD and listened to it at home.
Hey! Leave Moby out of this :-) (Now this I agree with.) - Greg
1994-11-10 05:19Pete Ashdown>> DAT is fine but there is no substitute for watching some one play > > WHY would you wan
From:
Pete Ashdown
To:
Date:
Wed, 9 Nov 1994 22:19:23 -0700
Subject:
CULTURE? WHAT CULTURE?
permalink · <199411100517.WAA08884@xmission.xmission.com>
quoted 5 lines DAT is fine but there is no substitute for watching some one play>> DAT is fine but there is no substitute for watching some one play > > WHY would you want to watch someone "play"? At best, it's a series of > mechanical movements; at worst, it's mechanical movements plus theatrical > wanking. Does it convey ANY useful information?
Does "entertainment" in general convey any useful information? Bands can always be fun, but will it help me run a business? I think the "theatrical wanking" is a fairly broad term. My eyes sparkled all night at the Orb's last Warfield performance. I couldn't have had a better time, yet Alex and Thrash were fairly bland in themselves. What surrounded them was the key. On the other side of the spectrum, performances from "bands" like Fierce Ruling Diva, The Shamen, 808 State, and Moby have left me completely dry. Watching someone skillfully play a single guitar on an empty stage is far better than watching someone jump around and pretend they're God to a tape with a jillion Intellibeams. I would _kill_ to see Graeme Revell bang some cans on stage, much more so than a hundred 303 twankers. Yet, personal levels of entertainment are subjective. We go to see performers for the general celebrity closeness and then to see what they can do. I've sold off music after bad performances and bought music after good ones. Tours are marketing, but it also gives us the ability to scrutinize talent and throw out the poseurs.
1994-11-10 05:19Pete Ashdown>I also suspect that at the Mixmaster Morris/Pete Namlook show in San Francisco, >there mi
From:
Pete Ashdown
To:
Date:
Wed, 9 Nov 1994 22:19:39 -0700
Subject:
Re: CULTURE? WHAT CULTURE?
permalink · <199411100517.WAA08901@xmission.xmission.com>
quoted 4 lines I also suspect that at the Mixmaster Morris/Pete Namlook show in San Francisco,>I also suspect that at the Mixmaster Morris/Pete Namlook show in San Francisco, >there might not have been much "musical interaction with the audience" or >"theatrical experience", but I have yet to hear from anyone that went who >didn't think that they had an absolutely wonderful time.
The best thing about that show is that it was the first unique rave-type-thing to happen in a lonnnnng time. What has been disappointing is that there hasn't been anything similar since. Where's Bill Laswell when you need him?
1994-11-10 20:54Michael Wertheim> I know they are talented cause they write good sequences for their rekkid. All you know
From:
Michael Wertheim
To:
Cc:
Date:
Thu, 10 Nov 1994 12:54:00 -0800
Subject:
Re: CULTURE? WHAT CULTURE?
permalink · <9411102054.AA13022@martha.sybgate.sybase.com>
quoted 1 line I know they are talented cause they write good sequences for their rekkid.> I know they are talented cause they write good sequences for their rekkid.
All you know is that *someone* wrote good sequences for the record. It could have been the artist, but it also could have been the producer, the engineer or the studio's janitor. Songwriting credits are rarely what they seem.
1994-11-11 06:16transmat@teleport.comPete wrote: >I would _kill_ to see Graeme Revell bang some cans on stage, much more so >th
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To:
Date:
Thu, 10 Nov 1994 22:16:44 -0800
Subject:
Re: CULTURE? WHAT CULTURE?
permalink · <199411100607.WAA08296@desiree.teleport.com>
Pete wrote:
quoted 2 lines I would _kill_ to see Graeme Revell bang some cans on stage, much more so>I would _kill_ to see Graeme Revell bang some cans on stage, much more so >than a hundred 303 twankers.
The time I saw SPK, Revell was 'playing' a circular saw against a metal pipe. It added a spark to his performance* ~ # * *
quoted 2 lines Yet, personal levels of entertainment are>Yet, personal levels of entertainment are >subjective.
Totally.
quoted 4 lines We go to see performers for the general celebrity closeness>We go to see performers for the general celebrity closeness >and then to see what they can do. I've sold off music after bad >performances and bought music after good ones. Tours are marketing, but it >also gives us the ability to scrutinize talent and throw out the poseurs.
I know they are talented cause they write good sequences for their rekkid. I go to hear LOUD MUSIC I couldnt hear at home 'cause I like my neighbors & to buy the over-priced T-shirt ;-} ~~~bleep~~~bleep~~~transmat@teleport.com