i guess the question i have, is, having stated the opinion that people find
the name of this artist offensive, what is it that is wanted from the rest
of us? is the expectation that each and every person on this list email
them and say "yes, i agree with you, you're right and i've changed my
opinion" -- i mean, is that the endgame here, everyone has to change their
opinions to match?
they stated their opinions
other people stated theirs
this is not a political forum, it is not your right to force your viewpoint
onto anyone here, if someone disagrees with you, you may have to just
accept that and move on with your life
Clint Anderson
Systems Engineer
"Freedom -- paint me a picture!" -- Burton Cummings
On Tue, Mar 27, 2018 at 9:55 AM, 22tape <22tape@gmail.com> wrote:
quoted 264 lines "I guess at this point this list is mostly white men aged 40+.. so it's
> "I guess at this point this list is mostly white men aged 40+.. so it's
> pretty pointless trying to have an informed debate about gender and
> violence here."
>
> Calling for peace and progress might be more impactful if you don't begin
> with insults.
>
> On Tue, Mar 27, 2018 at 3:29 AM, alex <alex@slab.org> wrote:
>
>> I guess at this point this list is mostly white men aged 40+.. so it's
>> pretty pointless trying to have an informed debate about gender and
>> violence here.
>>
>> With the #metoo movement etc though I think men are reaching more
>> understanding of the struggle women get through, and less likely to
>> shrug off the topic of domestic violence as a joke.
>>
>> I don't know beatwife, his music, why he chose that name, or whether
>> he's ever appeared on the same billing as a woman..
>>
>> Lets just make space for a healthier + more diverse generation to
>> replace us. Line-ups are getting more diverse + more interesting all
>> the time. Lets focus on supporting that.
>>
>> cheers
>>
>>
>>
>> On 26 March 2018 at 16:31, Quizzik <quizzik@gmail.com> wrote:
>> > Totally with you, Nat. Irresponsible name.
>> > Keep it up.
>> >
>> >
>> > soundcloud.com/quizzik
>> >
>> > On Sun, Mar 25, 2018 at 11:18 PM, nat hawks <natbot@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> "but maybe we're being "hypersensitive". sigh."?!
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Sorry, but no way.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Beatwife?
>> >>
>> >> Bullshit name.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> ________________________________
>> >> From: Mauro <lavaramano@gmail.com>
>> >> Sent: Sunday, March 25, 2018 9:48 PM
>> >> To: nat hawks
>> >> Cc: 22tape; idm@hyperreal.org; psycosyin
>> >> Subject: Re: beatwife podcast
>> >>
>> >> On Sun, Mar 25, 2018 at 10:15 PM, nat hawks <natbot@hotmail.com>
>> wrote:
>> >> > Hello Mauro!
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > Thanks for jumping in.
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > To clarify, I should have been more careful with my wording. "Hate
>> >> > speech"
>> >> > obviously has its own, specific, (now legal) definition. What I
>> meant
>> >> > to
>> >> > say was just that "there is hate in these words."
>> >> >
>> >>
>> >> each word individually have their own meaning, but 2+2=... so, yes. i
>> >> agree.
>> >>
>> >> >
>> >> > I'd also like to agree with your criticism on my "men do x"
>> statement.
>> >> > You're right. I was feeling frustrated in the moment that I felt a
>> >> > sense of
>> >> > traditional male values creeping in (though it could have just been
>> me
>> >> > feeling sensitive at the time). [in my case it would more be a "real
>> >> > men
>> >> > cry" argument]
>> >> >
>> >>
>> >> don't worry. that's why i asked to take a break. in the heat of the
>> >> moment / out of frustration we end up saying things we don't fully
>> >> agree.
>> >>
>> >> >
>> >> > In terms of making assumptions about someone's intentions behind,
>> say, a
>> >> > group name... it's an interesting debate. Personally, in this case I
>> >> > feel
>> >> > like there is basically zero gray area though.
>> >> >
>> >>
>> >> i don't *really* know why the musician choose those words. i mean, he
>> >> could have chosen "rimjob" as an alias but he didn't. and it would
>> >> have been the same since he would be "working with the rim of the
>> >> snare" or some bs like that. right?
>> >>
>> >> i agree with you that being naive and letting these things go through
>> >> are invisibilizing violence towards a pretty specific group of people.
>> >> but maybe we're being "hypersensitive". sigh.
>> >>
>> >> > ________________________________
>> >> > From: Mauro <lavaramano@gmail.com>
>> >> > Sent: Sunday, March 25, 2018 9:00 PM
>> >> > To: 22tape
>> >> > Cc: nat hawks; idm@hyperreal.org; psycosyin
>> >> > Subject: Re: beatwife podcast
>> >> >
>> >> > On Sun, Mar 25, 2018 at 9:43 PM, 22tape <22tape@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >> >> Yeah, they’re both victims of sexual assault... so no safe privilege
>> >> >> here.
>> >> >>
>> >> >
>> >> > hi. instead of dismissing what nat is saying. we could take a step
>> >> > outside of this thread and think about it for a moment.
>> >> > on one hand (with hanlon's razor in hand) we can't directly attribute
>> >> > that beatwife is spreading hate-speech.
>> >> > on the other hand, we can't either give the benefit of the doubt to
>> >> > naming things like this (not just beatwife, but goat whore, stage 4
>> >> > cancer, prostitute disfigurement also. to name a few).
>> >> >
>> >> > nat: i'd like to point out that "real men do x" is a bit silly,
>> >> > because you're forcing men to act in a certain way (ie: real men
>> don't
>> >> > cry.) to avoid seeing them as less-than-a-man (i'll leave the blank
>> >> > space to be filled in). and i'll just stop typing here to avoid being
>> >> > seen as a sjw.
>> >> >
>> >> > either way, i'm really happy that this kind of discussion are taking
>> >> > place (it means that something a revision because it got out-dated).
>> >> > also, no godwin's law so far !
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >> On Sun, Mar 25, 2018 at 6:27 PM nat hawks <natbot@hotmail.com>
>> wrote:
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> And they are correct in that regards!!! You are right. But, I do
>> >> >>> think
>> >> >>> women need protecting because currently in our world they are not
>> >> >>> protected
>> >> >>> and they are being disproportionately hurt.
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> Something to consider: sometimes it is from (no assumptions of your
>> >> >>> family) a place of safe privilege where we can make such
>> statements.
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> ________________________________
>> >> >>> From: 22tape <22tape@gmail.com>
>> >> >>> Sent: Sunday, March 25, 2018 8:17 PM
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> To: nat hawks
>> >> >>> Cc: idm@hyperreal.org; psycosyin
>> >> >>> Subject: Re: beatwife podcast
>> >> >>> I’m actually sitting here with my mom and sister (who are both
>> >> >>> feminists)
>> >> >>> having a cup of coffee talking about fisting. They are not
>> offended.
>> >> >>> They
>> >> >>> actually think this whole thread is hilarious. Idealogues are
>> >> >>> hilarious!
>> >> >>> They think that your heart is in the right place, but they also
>> think
>> >> >>> that
>> >> >>> men who view women as monolithic creatures who need protecting are
>> >> >>> sorely
>> >> >>> mislead.
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> On Sun, Mar 25, 2018 at 6:08 PM nat hawks <natbot@hotmail.com>
>> wrote:
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> 22tape, imagine what a female would feel reading your last post.
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> A female who is trying to learn more about a male-dominated genre
>> of
>> >> >>> music
>> >> >>> she loves? Making idm herself.
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> She would be rightfully disgusted. "fist" (while an accepted
>> >> >>> consensual
>> >> >>> act) connotes violence without context.
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> sexual violence.
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> ________________________________
>> >> >>> From: 22tape <22tape@gmail.com>
>> >> >>> Sent: Sunday, March 25, 2018 8:04 PM
>> >> >>> To: nat hawks
>> >> >>> Cc: idm@hyperreal.org; psycosyin
>> >> >>> Subject: Re: beatwife podcast
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> What if it’s a female fisting another female?
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> On Sun, Mar 25, 2018 at 5:52 PM nat hawks <natbot@hotmail.com>
>> wrote:
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> 1. Beatwife=beat wife. Period.
>> >> >>> 2. Skinny Puppy isn't a great example, but I hear you. Someone
>> >> >>> mentioned
>> >> >>> Goat Whore. Personally, I think that is a vile band name that
>> >> >>> perpetuates
>> >> >>> the abuse of women.
>> >> >>> 3. Fisted Sister=perpetuates abuse against women.
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> Sent from my iPhone
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> > On Mar 25, 2018, at 6:41 PM, psycosyin <psycosyin@mi.rr.com>
>> wrote:
>> >> >>> >
>> >> >>> > He isn't saying anything literally about beating one's wife, it's
>> >> >>> > just
>> >> >>> > a
>> >> >>> > word with no context attached, as far as I know. There is a
>> band
>> >> >>> > named
>> >> >>> > Skinny Puppy, they aren't saying "you should starve your baby
>> dog".
>> >> >>> >
>> >> >>> > I guess my dream of starting a hair metal cover band named Fisted
>> >> >>> > Sister
>> >> >>> > wouldn't go over well around here.
>> >> >>> >
>> >> >>> >
>> >> >>> > <RAW>
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> --
>> >> >>> 22tape/jared dunne
>> >> >>> listen
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> --
>> >> >>> 22tape/jared dunne
>> >> >>> listen
>> >> >>
>> >> >> --
>> >> >> 22tape/jared dunne
>> >> >> listen
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> http://yaxu.org/
>>
>
>
>
> --
> 22tape/jared dunne
> listen <http://22tape.com>
>