quoted 12 lines -----Original Message-----
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Adam Piontek [mailto:apiontek@yahoo.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, May 15, 2001 12:48 PM
> To: idm@hyperreal.org
> Subject: RE: [idm] re: art & expression
>
>
> --- Myroslaw Bytz <vzaem@humbledesign.com> wrote:
> > no. see that's exactly the problem.
>
> don't say "no." to people's opinions - that just
> reflects arrogance, and it's just plain rediculous.
true. i was thinking aloud. i apologize.
quoted 23 lines who's to say that signed artists are
> > who's to say that signed artists are
> > better in expressing themselves than "the rest of
> > us?" just because a
> > garbageman gets paid for it and we don't get paid
> > for expressing our
> > sanitary skills, does that automatically mean he is
> > better than the rest of
> > us are, or just that he has chosen that job? the
> > same goes for artists.
>
> I'm guessing a garbageman (or woman) has certain
> training and skills that you and I do not have. After
> a while, a garbageman has experience as well. I doubt
> that there are amateur garbagemen trying to get into
> the world of garbage collecting, but if it really was
> such a popular market, I'm sure they would have to
> "audition" their skills and experience.
> This is what demo tapes/cdrs are for. You keep
> practicing and working at what you're trying to do,
> and eventually a label might think you're good and
> pick you up. Certainly this doesn't mean that no one
> without a label is any good, just like an actor
> without a theatre company isn't necessarily bad.
right. that was what i was questioning. the contention was made that being
paid for your expression was a sort of prerequisite for "good" expression.
quoted 30 lines That's just how it works. Why? Well, an actor
> That's just how it works. Why? Well, an actor
> auditions to be in shows rather than just acting for
> us on the street because the average public doesn't
> really have the time, energy, or education to
> recognize greatness in every "free artist" in the
> world. We let people who know better than us pick the
> actors and directors and stagehands to put on the show
> for us. Same goes for music. Labels do a lot of work
> that I would rather not do. I don't go sifting
> through MP3.com because I have neither the time nor
> energy for millions of people who I'm probably not
> going to be interested in. So, I trust a few labels
> to do the work for me. I don't put my trust in them
> 100%, of course, and I try to keep a sense of
> adventure, but just like any garbageman, some are more
> skilled, experienced, and worthy of a paycheck than
> others.
>
> Every once in a while, I discover someone new to me
> thanks to forums like this list or my group of
> friends. They are also like a "label," except that
> they are just filtering to me through their own
> experiences. Regardless, your assumption that
> everyone is equally capable of expressing themselves
> (or, I would specify, being interestingly creative) is
> false. Some are just more creative than others. Some
> are also taller than others, blacker than others, or
> more capable of controlling their eye muscles than
> others. To deny differences in creative ability among
> the human population is like trying to deny biology.
i was denying the stratification of all-around human expression, not
differences in focused creativity.
quoted 2 lines Anyways, art is the lowest form of expression, and
> Anyways, art is the lowest form of expression, and
> human expression is overrated.
that's what i'm saying, in a way.
quoted 9 lines honestly think i could easily make much of the
> > honestly think i could easily make much of the
> > postmodern "yellow square on
> > canvas" fad paintings that are up now in art
> > museums, but why would i waste
>
> It doesn't sound like you've been to many art museums.
> Rather, it sounds like you've absorbed the uninformed
> popular bias against art, and are now, ironically,
> applying that view to your own creative energies.
how's that? i'm not saying i hate all art. i'm saying that if seen as
simply expression, a more unbiased and free view is gained.
quoted 3 lines For the record, I don't go to many art museums either,
> For the record, I don't go to many art museums either,
> but I've seen a lot of interesting things in them,
> quite other than what you describe.
as have i.
quoted 5 lines Also for the
> Also for the
> record, some of the music on this list seems very
> "yellow square on canvas"-ish to me. A certain recent
> album whose one-word name starts with "C" and ends
> with "D" comes to mind...
haven't heard it. haven't even the desire to, after seeing ae live last
week. some would say that this "yellow square on canvas" school of idm is
what is wrong with the genre nowadays. i simply see it as not my cup of
tea, so it doesn't apply to me, just like kid rock, yellow square on canvas,
and die hard with a vengeance.
quoted 11 lines like "art." compromise is what it's about. you
> > like "art." compromise is what it's about. you
> > either do or you don't. if
> > you're smart in this day and age, compromise can
> > mean lots of money and
> > fame, but once you do that, give up hope for
> > expressing yourself cleanly and
> > simply from that point on. also give up the
> > illusion that you are an
> > artist.
>
> Compromise does not mean lots of money and fame.
i said that a compromise *can* mean money and fame, if done consciously and
deliberately.
quoted 3 lines Not
> Not
> that many artists have lots of money and fame, despite
> what you would call compromise.
if they had compromised for the right reasons (ie. focused their
music-making ability into copying certain pop-formulas, for the express goal
of personal monetary gain) then they would have had a better chance at money
and fame.
quoted 8 lines And despite what you
> And despite what you
> would call compromise, not that many artists, I
> believe, really give up their ability to express
> themselves cleanly and simply. Sure, it's a danger,
> but so is drifting into obscurity and never having
> anyone care about you or what you do. Actually, most
> of us settle for the latter anyway, I suppose. It's
> the curse of consciousness...
if your expression was clean and simple (or pure), whether or not you drift
into obscurity shouldn't be an issue, since you would be expressing yourself
anyway. i think i know where you're going with the curse of consciousness
bit, but what exactly do you mean?
vzaem
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