It takes musician/programmer (they are the same thing in electronic music)
to make these sequences and tones. It may be automated upon transmission,
but had to be "made" or "programmed" Some lean more toward the programming
side, step sequencing, and arpeggiators. But I am assuming there are alot
of electronic "musicians" that actually play their synths like myself. I do
not agree that musicianship is performance art. It is about making music,
not being a performer. If you want to throw in a show, great! but be
yourself, dont try to be what you are not on stage. Put your musician foot
forward, play the synths, and edit your parameters live (you know who you
are), and put your performance act on the shelf. :)
~swamay~
www.mp3.com/swamay
www.swamay.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Josh Brown" <josh@undertone.com>
To: "b. fagan" <benfagan@blue.weeg.uiowa.edu>
Cc: "swamay" <swamay@home.com>; <idm@hyperreal.org>
Sent: Tuesday, April 10, 2001 8:27 AM
Subject: Re: [idm] Re: What do you expect from IDM musicians on stage?
quoted 20 lines I agree wholehartedly.... most electronic musicians are really> I agree wholehartedly.... most electronic musicians are really
> composers, not musicians... musicianship is a performance art....
> pressing play is not performance...
>
> Let's arrive at a definition of performance:
>
> My definition: Performance is when the majority of tones being heard
> are caused directly by the performer on stage in real-time (not
> sequenced) using whatever instrument he/she likes.
>
> Musician is a little different because, although all musicians are
> performers, not all performers are musicians (for example DJs).
>
> Musicians: performers whose expertise is in manipulating raw musical
> tones in real-time and who combine them to form original music by
> playing an instrument.
>
> "b. fagan" wrote:
> >
> > mozart did not play all the instruments he wrote music for, or at least
i
quoted 1 line dont think so. he composed, using a piano, he then transcribed his> > dont think so. he composed, using a piano, he then transcribed his
piano
quoted 1 line compositions onto paper, and expanded it to other instruments. mozart> > compositions onto paper, and expanded it to other instruments. mozart
was
quoted 2 lines a genius, he could sequence in his head. if we could all do that> > a genius, he could sequence in his head. if we could all do that
> > sequencing programs would be pointless. alas, we cannot, so they are
not.
quoted 19 lines i dont think its the sounds that come out of computers that define the> > i dont think its the sounds that come out of computers that define the
> > electronic music genre (whatever that is), but what the computers can do
> > with sounds, e.g. new matmos. imho computers and other electronic such
> > electronic devices are composition tools, and electronic musicians are
> > first and foremost composers. only a select few can both play the
> > instruments and compose them, e.g. squarepusher. now im rambling, but
> > this is a debate that tends to get people all in a hissy about whats
> > "real" and whats not, which all comes down to personal preference, which
> > is what this list is all about, so i guess what im saying is that THANK
> > YOU FOR TALKING ABOUT THIS AND NOT HOW OLD YOU ARE!
> >
> > On Mon, 9 Apr 2001, Josh Bown wrote:
> >
> > > ok.... hmmmm.... defensive maybe???
> > >
> > > let me try to say this nicely: synths are great, so are effects, but
> > > they also have a kind of gimmiky quality to them.
> > >
> > > Yes, there will be more and more experimentation into new forms of
music
quoted 6 lines using synths....> > > using synths....
> > >
> > > There will also be more and more experimentation using traditional
> > > instruments...
> > >
> > > If you were able to go 1000 years into the future, I would be willing
to
quoted 3 lines be that people will still be playing traditional instruments....> > > be that people will still be playing traditional instruments....
> > >
> > > also, I can make sounds come out of an acoustic guitar that I can't
get
quoted 9 lines out of any synth....> > > out of any synth....
> > >
> > > People, especially the listening audience, will always want to hear
> > > finger squeaks, pick scratches, breath noizes, and other random and
> > > chaotic sounds that add to the reality and emotionality of music made
> > > with real/traditional instruments....
> > >
> > > the novelty of psychedelic sci-fi noises coming out of computers is
> > > wearing off, and music that has that as it's sole or primary voice
will
quoted 14 lines remain obscure and as a gimmick.> > > remain obscure and as a gimmick.
> > >
> > > Music that is based on skilled performance of real instruments,
> > > augmented by various synthetic spice will be what the future of music
> > > has to offer...
> > >
> > > Musical skill will always be the product of practice and dedication.
> > > Sound Design is not music... it's hollywod special effects....
> > >
> > > music is composition and performance... and if you have a good
> > > composition, it will sound good when performed by a good performer no
> > > matter what instrument they use.
> > >
> > > If it is sequenced and relies on quantization, then it will sound
boring
quoted 7 lines to most people and would make a terrible live show...> > > to most people and would make a terrible live show...
> > >
> > > Again... this is all my opinion.....
> > >
> > > swamay wrote:
> > > >
> > > > If i hear another guitar, bass, drum set i am going to puke...
this music
quoted 1 line has been played to death!! it has ALL been done, every combination> > > > has been played to death!! it has ALL been done, every combination
of every
quoted 1 line string imaginable has been done. A real instrument! Synths are> > > > string imaginable has been done. A real instrument! Synths are
real
quoted 3 lines instruments. computers are real instruments. so is a water bottle.> > > > instruments. computers are real instruments. so is a water bottle.
> > > > insights from nature of music, no thanks, ill take my insight from
> > > > technology and the inspiration of what wonderful sounds we have all
NOT
quoted 2 lines heard yet. which I guarantee you is not going to come from a "real"> > > > heard yet. which I guarantee you is not going to come from a "real"
> > > > instrument such as a guitar, bass, drums, horn or whatever
"acoustic" or non
quoted 3 lines electronic instrument.> > > > electronic instrument.
> > > >
> > > > I can see oscillator or bits. actually i create them. so can you.
:)
quoted 1 line Instead of the string vibrating, i see things on an oscillator.> > > > Instead of the string vibrating, i see things on an oscillator.
much more
quoted 8 lines appealing to a person into IDM music.> > > > appealing to a person into IDM music.
> > > >
> > > > ~swamay~
> > > > www.swamay.com
> > > > www.mp3.com/swamay
> > > >
> > > > <<Also, learn to play a real instrument!!! aside from the miraculous
> > > > insights you will gain into the nature of music, fans like to see
where
quoted 1 line the sound is coming from, and you can't see oscillators or bits...> > > > the sound is coming from, and you can't see oscillators or bits...
you
quoted 12 lines can see strings vibrating, some one blowing into a flute... fingers> > > > can see strings vibrating, some one blowing into a flute... fingers
> > > > moving, etc>>
> > > >
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From: "Josh Bown" <josh@undertone.com>
> > > > To: <idm@hyperreal.org>
> > > > Sent: Monday, April 09, 2001 12:42 PM
> > > > Subject: [idm] Re: What do you expect from IDM musicians on stage?
> > > >
> > > > > my $0.02
> > > > >
> > > > > First off, I am a guitarist, singer songwriter who has performed
in
quoted 4 lines numerous bands etc... and also have a love of IDMish electronic> > > > > numerous bands etc... and also have a love of IDMish electronic
> > > > > music....
> > > > >
> > > > > Alomst every single IDM show I have seen has been a waste of my
time and
quoted 1 line has bored my ass off, so much so that I am intentionally missing> > > > > has bored my ass off, so much so that I am intentionally missing
the
quoted 1 line autechre show here in seattle coming up, because really, I am sure> > > > > autechre show here in seattle coming up, because really, I am sure
their
quoted 3 lines CDs would sound better anyway....> > > > > CDs would sound better anyway....
> > > > >
> > > > > One exception being when I saw Orbital... but then again I was on
heavy
quoted 3 lines doses of happy pills....> > > > > doses of happy pills....
> > > > >
> > > > > What I would like to see is, and I know the technology exists to
do this
quoted 1 line because I use it in the studio (Logic Audio) is much more> > > > > because I use it in the studio (Logic Audio) is much more
improvisation,
quoted 1 line interactivity etc... The people want to see you play your> > > > > interactivity etc... The people want to see you play your
instrument. If
quoted 1 line your instrument is a mouse then stay in the studio and forget> > > > > your instrument is a mouse then stay in the studio and forget
about
quoted 1 line touring... At the very least, just have the drum parts be> > > > > touring... At the very least, just have the drum parts be
sequenced
quoted 3 lines and actually play the other parts live on a keyboard...> > > > > and actually play the other parts live on a keyboard...
> > > > >
> > > > > If you were to take it to the limit, you could have it so that
every
quoted 1 line minute part of your song could be triggered/untriggered/layered in> > > > > minute part of your song could be triggered/untriggered/layered in
what
quoted 1 line ever order you wanted so that you could extend it, break it down> > > > > ever order you wanted so that you could extend it, break it down
in new
quoted 1 line ways and/or improvise over a little jam section depending on the> > > > > ways and/or improvise over a little jam section depending on the
croud
quoted 4 lines mood.....> > > > > mood.....
> > > > >
> > > > > Also, learn to play a real instrument!!! aside from the miraculous
> > > > > insights you will gain into the nature of music, fans like to see
where
quoted 1 line the sound is coming from, and you can't see oscillators or bits...> > > > > the sound is coming from, and you can't see oscillators or bits...
you
quoted 1 line can see strings vibrating, some one blowing into a flute...> > > > > can see strings vibrating, some one blowing into a flute...
fingers
quoted 3 lines moving, etc....> > > > > moving, etc....
> > > > >
> > > > > Basically, if you have any real musical skill your live shows will
be
quoted 22 lines impressive... twiddling knobs is not musical skill per say...> > > > > impressive... twiddling knobs is not musical skill per say...
> > > > > composition is musical skill, twiddling knobs is sound design, but
> > > > > performance is a completely other matter altogether....
> > > > >
> > > > > peace
> > > > >
> > > >
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