So, if you're going to say music is best when it comes from its
original culture/region, you're going to have to extend that to
include temporal boundaries as well. I mean, say I decide to record
some classical piano, some Mozart. Do I have to live like Mozart did
and get into his non-existant pre-modern European culture? I would
say no. Music is not devoid of cultural attachments, but it is not a
culture itself. Hip-hop, as I understand it, is a musical style that
came out of and is largely still very attached to certain cultures in
America. It was/is part of a cultural movement. But the
culture/movement does not equal hip-hop.
Certainly, the culture or region from which a style comes originally
is where that particular style has its roots, and the style is most
important/meaningful to the people of that area/culture. However, if
everyone just stuck to the music of their own area/culture, as it
would seem you are suggesting, then there would never be any musical
cross-pollenation or evolution. Classical musicians and artists of
the 19th century would never have allowed themselves to have anything
to do with asian influences. Rock'n'roll wouldn't exist. Hip-hop
itself would not exist.
Face it man, you're trying to tell people to not be inventive or
creative, to stick to what others around them are doing. Where's the
fun in that. What's important is not that someone make music that's
important to their region or community, but that someone make music
that's *important to them.* That's where the spirituality and
ultimate power of music comes from - when the artist puts themselves
into the music and makes it their own. Surrendering that to some
notion of serving your region is daft.
-adam
----- Original Message -----
From: "Armchair Charlie" <dubnovibrator@hotmail.com>
To: <jdunning2@hotmail.com>; <idm@hyperreal.org>
Sent: Tuesday, February 20, 2001 6:01 PM
Subject: Re: [idm] Scott Herren and ATL
quoted 1 line explain what exactly this means, and i don't mean wonderful
> >explain what exactly this means, and i don't mean wonderful
generality
quoted 2 lines either, it is appearent that you have put alot of thought in this
> >either, it is appearent that you have put alot of thought in this
> >statement, so please do share with us. and contrast your statement
with
quoted 1 line other forms of music and why culture is so powerful to hip-hop vs
> >other forms of music and why culture is so powerful to hip-hop vs
anything
quoted 3 lines else.
> >else.
>
> alrighty! basically all i mean is that culturally aware music has
more
quoted 1 line potential than non-aware music. that doesn't mean that scott MUST
> potential than non-aware music. that doesn't mean that scott MUST
change
quoted 1 line his ways and become a Mannie Fresh-lovin dirty south bawla, but it
> his ways and become a Mannie Fresh-lovin dirty south bawla, but it
might be
quoted 1 line nice if he did at least hint at some of the musical elements that
> nice if he did at least hint at some of the musical elements that
make
quoted 1 line southern rap unique. (i have yet to hear ANY elements of that sort
> southern rap unique. (i have yet to hear ANY elements of that sort
in his
quoted 1 line music.) if he did incorporate some of this dirty south production
> music.) if he did incorporate some of this dirty south production
into his
quoted 1 line own work, that would make his music more culturally valid (which
> own work, that would make his music more culturally valid (which
would be a
quoted 1 line good thing). the fact that he's doing a track with Anticon suggests
> good thing). the fact that he's doing a track with Anticon suggests
that he
quoted 1 line has very particular tastes: underground, abstract, collegiate
> has very particular tastes: underground, abstract, collegiate
hip-hop. this
quoted 1 line kind of hip-hop, for the most part, is NOT happening in ATL or
> kind of hip-hop, for the most part, is NOT happening in ATL or
elsewhere in
quoted 1 line the south (with exceptions of course). so it starts to become
> the south (with exceptions of course). so it starts to become
apparent to
quoted 1 line me that since scott's region hasn't affected his music AT ALL, that
> me that since scott's region hasn't affected his music AT ALL, that
he lacks
quoted 1 line awareness. and that would be a bad thing, right? i realize that's
> awareness. and that would be a bad thing, right? i realize that's
a very
quoted 1 line picky way of looking at things. again, don't ponder over it too
> picky way of looking at things. again, don't ponder over it too
much, it
quoted 1 line really doesn't mean that much. but it does have some relevance, so
> really doesn't mean that much. but it does have some relevance, so
that's
quoted 3 lines why i brought it up.
> why i brought it up.
>
> >what should "dorky idm producers" be trying to say, what universal
message?
quoted 3 lines in your opinion.
> >in your opinion.
>
> ok, the "dorky [idm] producers" smirk wasn't meant to be taken
seriously.
quoted 1 line so please don't (take it seriously). i just mean that idm musicians
> so please don't (take it seriously). i just mean that idm musicians
don't
quoted 1 line really take part in a well defined culture. cuz they (we) are
> really take part in a well defined culture. cuz they (we) are
scattered all
quoted 1 line over the planet (not that hip-hop artists aren't as well). and we
> over the planet (not that hip-hop artists aren't as well). and we
don't
quoted 1 line have anything to say (maybe besides "think, don't dance"), nor
> have anything to say (maybe besides "think, don't dance"), nor
should we.
quoted 1 line and we don't have highly concentrated geographic areas. we are
> and we don't have highly concentrated geographic areas. we are
where we
quoted 1 line are, as individuals more than as a society. i would argue that
> are, as individuals more than as a society. i would argue that
hiphop has a
quoted 1 line bigger cultural value, mainly because it's bigger. and it's
> bigger cultural value, mainly because it's bigger. and it's
definitely more
quoted 1 line regionally diverse. in idm, we'll have pole and kit clayton in
> regionally diverse. in idm, we'll have pole and kit clayton in
totally
quoted 1 line different regions, still making very similar music. you are less
> different regions, still making very similar music. you are less
likely to
quoted 1 line see Jurassic 5 throw a Timbaland-soundin' beat in a new track,
> see Jurassic 5 throw a Timbaland-soundin' beat in a new track,
partly
quoted 1 line because they are divided by region. scott is an idm producer
> because they are divided by region. scott is an idm producer
without a
quoted 2 lines fully fleshed musical culture, and he's experimenting with hip-hop
> fully fleshed musical culture, and he's experimenting with hip-hop
> production seemingly with his eyes closed to some very key elements
that
quoted 1 line make hip-hop what it is (region, etc.). and because that's the
> make hip-hop what it is (region, etc.). and because that's the
case, i
quoted 10 lines don't believe he can ever be a true innovator of hip-hop.
> don't believe he can ever be a true innovator of hip-hop.
>
>
> >so when an idm producer
> >>tries to
> >>"rebuild" hip-hop, he should at least take a look around.
> >
> >and what exactly does this mean too?
>
> it means that he should take a look around (literally). he should
take part
quoted 1 line in regional affairs, because that's what hip-hop artists do. that's
> in regional affairs, because that's what hip-hop artists do. that's
not to
quoted 1 line say that scott is a hip-hop artist; he's not. but he's obviously
> say that scott is a hip-hop artist; he's not. but he's obviously
interested
quoted 1 line in and influenced by hip-hop. and in that case, he should feel
> in and influenced by hip-hop. and in that case, he should feel
obligated to
quoted 1 line step outside the realm of the idm producer and breath in some
> step outside the realm of the idm producer and breath in some
hip-hop. if
quoted 1 line he's gonna be a true innovator, he has to be somewhat participant in
> he's gonna be a true innovator, he has to be somewhat participant in
the
quoted 6 lines culture that he's highlighting. make sense?
> culture that he's highlighting. make sense?
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