old/new to the list - so sorry if im overdue on this thread; hi; shel here
in brooklyn. re-subbed after a year lapse...
was thinking about this the other day. made an eerie ambient/ish track of
myself, sampled, singing bits of various nursury rhymes - i've high tone
girl voice. just me and the mini disc and some digidelay, cheap 10 second
sampler, droped in some distorted drums from a random 12inch; and layered
it all. quick and extremely easy, no computers. less than an hour and a few
glasses of sake.
and it sounds cool. but i was gettin all wicked insecure about its lack of
complex structures and geekedoutedness
which is absurd;
also, makes me wanna stretch the question even further, i don't think we
could label it so quickly as content vs process; b/c in my lil scenario,
the process was very important to the integrity of the piece; childhood,
easy, almost crude manipulation of sound.... etc.
i think the real question is satisfying or not satisfying...
i like yer thinking benjamin about looking for new parameters for 'what
makes good' -- i.e. what do we value in the music we make and why.... i
feel like not enough people are asking that question... so much is about
the aesthetics, be it visual or auditory. i've always felt music, like all
my "art" is about communication of ideas... how well can others either
understand what you are trying to say or create their own meaning so its
valuable to them too.
./s
At 03:33 PM 1/23/01 -0800, Benjamin I Zavodnick wrote:
quoted 200 lines To agree or not to agree? That of course is the eternal Question. While
>To agree or not to agree? That of course is the eternal Question. While
>some of the thinking here appeals on one level I kinda get scared away
>from arguments like this one that seem to state that all sonic art needs
>to play by the same rules as traditional musics (emotion, communication
>etc.). I would also like to raise this question: Why should we believe
>that the retaliative complexity and or simplicity of a given method of
>composition has any baring on the merits of a given piece of music. Are
>Terry Riely or Philip Glass cheaters because they use less stuff then
>Stockhausen or Webern. Or to put it another way why should you feel bad
>for discovering a simple process which has Grand results. Just because
>your patch is simple does not mean that you should not put it out, or
>that it is some sort of put on or rip off to regard it as music. People
>need to stop beating themselves up and let sound be sound
>
> ~ Benjamin I Zavodnick
> >
> www.mp3.com/BenjaminZavodnick
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: christian adam hresko <godpup@ix.netcom.com>
> > To: <idm@hyperreal.org>
> > Sent: Wednesday, January 10, 2001 8:35 AM
> > Subject: [idm] content vs. process
> >
> >
> > > in regards to this whole kyma / max / autechre / r. devine etc
> > etc...
> > > argument, i think it comes down to the issue of the validity or
> > the
> > > 'quality' of the content.
> > >
> > > a good bunch of my friends are graphic designers (i, however,
> > can't draw
> > > worth a shit...) and constantly struggle with the 'gee wow' appeal
> > of
> > > something vs. the actual material being presented. it seems at
> > first,
> > > when you land your graphic design job, you want to smother
> > everything
> > > with photoshop filters, have really 'cool' fucked up fonts, and
> > make
> > > everything look 'artsy.' (and this is AFTER they've been through
> > four or
> > > five years of college / art school) however, what they soon
> > realize is
> > > that it's MUCH harder to design a nice layout for a book cover, or
> > a
> > > preface with the idea that your job is to convey information.
> > have you
> > > noticed how many magazines have relatively decent articles, but
> > you
> > > can't read them because the entire page has been filtered,
> > tweaked,
> > > rotated, and smeared? i hate that! you can't read a damn thing.
> > i
> > > used to get a kick out of that sort of stuff. my friend josh
> > finally
> > > convinced me that 'less is more.' and for the most part, it's
> > true.
> > > he'll spend endless hours (or days) laying out a single page
> > (print, not
> > > web) so that the reader can 'access' whatever information is being
> > > presented, in a logical and meaningful way. no distractions. no
> > > 'noise.' that's design. all the other stuff is just piling on
> > noise.
> > > and if that's the purpose / point of a book or a webpage, that's
> > > perfectly acceptable. if you're displaying information about a
> > group /
> > > band, do you really need all this shit moving around on the page?
> > does
> > > it 'enhance' your reading pleasure? do you gain more insight
> > about the
> > > group? i don't.
> > >
> > > so what does this have to do with music? well, with electronic
> > music in
> > > particular, one is tempted to do the exact same thing. sure,
> > programs
> > > like kyma, max / msp, supercollider, reaktor, or whatever your
> > favorite
> > > program is... are all programs which allow a great deal of
> > 'freedom.'
> > > but it's very tempting to pile on filtering algorithms, time
> > stretch
> > > (for the sake of time stretching), bit reduce, granulate, and
> > mangle
> > > your sound to death. yeah, it's pretty neat at first. and it
> > actually
> > > sounds pretty neat. but what are you trying to convey? and maybe
> > this
> > > is why IDM is quite emotionless. (at least i think it is. and
> > that's
> > > actually one of the reasons i enjoy it...) you're listening to a
> > > concept. a process. a method. a lot of time sitting in front of
> > a
> > > computer and trying to make something sound 'musical' but not in
> > the
> > > traditional sense. (you can interpret that however you'd like...)
> > the
> > > end result is a 'gee wow' kinda reaction. and i buy straight into
> > > this. and i'm trying my best to kick that habit. and to not
> > repeat the
> > > same thing myself. yes, i love the sound of digital artifacts.
> > but at
> > > some point, i have to ask myself what i'm listening to. what is
> > the
> > > content? what am i getting out of this 'music?' certainly not
> > > emotion. at least in my case. i suppose i like the 'logic' of
> > the
> > > music. i like figuring things out. i like to program. i like
> > > methods. maybe that's my attraction to IDM. but it's getting
> > old. the
> > > logic is the same. the methods are similar. there's no more
> > > 'challenge.' just layers and layers of shit on top of shit. i've
> > > programmed lots of shit. and luckily i realize that. my nifty
> > neato
> > > autechre patch for drum machines. it's neat. it makes a 'gee
> > wow' type
> > > of sound. you could probably make an entire album with this one
> > patch.
> > > and that's really pathetic. (i'm NOT saying this is what autechre
> > does.
> > > they definitely do they're on thing. good or bad, they came up
> > with a
> > > pretty original concept... or at least found the software to do it
> > with
> > > first outside of academics.) so i'm gonna go think about all
> > this. i'm
> > > glad this topic came up. because this is what's been stopping me
> > from
> > > recording and distributing anything i make. when my friends say
> > 'hey,
> > > you should send that in. it sounds just as good as the stuff you
> > listen
> > > to.' that needs to stop. and i need to stop paying 17 bucks for
> > 40
> > > minutes of skipping samples and background noise. then again, i
> > might
> > > change my mind about all this come tomorrow.
> > >
> > >
> > > bonus stuff.
> > >
> > > the tweaky beat patch for SuperCollider. run a drum machine
> > through
> > > your soundcard. (the pattern is irrelevant. a simple 4/4 bass
> > snare
> > > combo will do just fine) start moving the mouse around. and if
> > you
> > > want that 'gee wow' effect, move the mouse in the lower right hand
> > > corner of the screen and quickly move it back to the upper left
> > hand
> > > corner. have a blast. and yeah, it's a very simple patch. (works
> > for
> > > lame synth melodies as well...)
> > >
> > >
> > > > (
> > > > {
> > > > var input, output;
> > > >
> > > > w = GUIWindow.new("panel", Rect.newBy(7, 41, 1135, 816))
> > > > .backColor_(rgb(129,84,209));
> > > > StringView.new( w, Rect.newBy(433, 348, 235, 58), "M o u
> > s e X - Y S u r f a c e");
> > > >
> > > > input = AudioIn.ar([1,2]);
> > > >
> > > > output = CombA.ar(
> > > > in: input,
> > > > maxdelaytime: 0.05,
> > > > delaytime: MouseX.kr(0.0, 0.05, 'linear'),
> > > > decaytime: LFSaw.kr((MouseY.kr(10, 2000,
> > 'linear'))));
> > > >
> > > > output
> > > >
> > > > }.play;
> > > > w.close;
> > > > )
> > > >
> > > cheers,
> > >
> > > christian
> > >
> >
> >
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