"Gause, Brian" wrote:
quoted 5 lines Greetings.> Greetings.
>
> I agree that one of the defining characteristics of Pop is the
> intention of
> the artist to appeal to "The Unwashed Masses",
That's not true, like in the case of Willie Nelson. He didn't intend to
or care to become popular. He was writing music in a style that was
influenced by popular music, which is totally different. It happened as
a result of his talent and skill, and his music being in the right hands
and places at the right time. He said "I'd be doing it anyway" after he
had already "achieved success". The defining characteristic of Pop you
wish to speak of is more that it's the Unwashed Masse's intention to
appeal to the art of the artist, thus making it popular. This is
still, however incorrect, because we individually describe a piece of
music as "poppy" by comparing it to music that's already popular,
regardless of if it's popular or not. Some people that make pop music
despise the thought of becoming popular.
quoted 3 lines activity on this list over the past year (as compared to, say, 5 years> activity on this list over the past year (as compared to, say, 5 years
> ago)
> is good evidence that even this place has its "unwashed masses".
Agreed; on your opinion of the decline of relevant messages posted to
the list. Like this one.
quoted 19 lines This is not to say, however, that this is some sort of decline or that>
>
> This is not to say, however, that this is some sort of decline or that
> we
> should return to 'the good ol' days', but only that we should
> recognize the
> change for what it is. I like pop music and the expanding recognition
> as the
> scene grows is good for the artists, but this is exactly how Pop
> starts. The
> genre expands to capacity, then splinters...traditionally, it becomes
> the
> elite/old skool crowd and the newbies. Pop music is often the last
> remnant
> of a splintered scene and the beginning of real acceptance. If IDM (or
>
> whatever the hell we're calling this stuff these days) is ever going
> to
> cross into mainstream culture, it has to create a pop mentality.
It has, right here on the idm list! NO lex is better! NO kit6-0Pole is
better! NO NO NO!!!
I could hardly believe it the other night to read about who's going to
be the "#1 idm US artist".
I hope you all fight to the death about it, I really do.
quoted 18 lines Taking electronic music in the last decade as an example, look at what>
>
> Taking electronic music in the last decade as an example, look at what
> the
> Chemicals, the Orb, Prodigy, Moby, Orbital and fatboy slim have done
> to move
> our little scene into the mainstream. Each of these bands had moments
> of
> experimentalism that drew us closer to the mainstream (and vice
> versa), but
> I wouldn't call any of them IDM (well, maybe orbital in the early
> days...and
> the orb has huge crossover appeal). Now, look at the current
> generation of
> electronic musicians, crossing boundaries (playing with technology),
> making
> news(e.g. mp3.com), looking more and more like mainstream culture
> everyday.
Yep.
quoted 14 lines I remember the cries years ago that this music was hard to find, that>
>
> I remember the cries years ago that this music was hard to find, that
> no one
> knew anything about this stuff, that you had to get online to find
> like-minded fans...but it's changing. It happened; electronic music is
>
> catching on. One of the inevitable results of this is that a Pop
> mentality
> has creeped into some of the music. As more people listen to and
> create
> electronic music, as it becomes harder to match creaters with
> listeners, Pop
> will grow.
Yep. You mean, idm will grow as a pop format?
quoted 9 lines If you're still not buying it, consider rap, consider punk. It is the>
>
> If you're still not buying it, consider rap, consider punk. It is the
> fate
> of rebellious, exploratory creativity to become popular...hence, art
> becomes
> pop. Andy Warhol knew this years ago, but few knew what he was saying
> and
> the message was lost in a hairstyle.
Well, maybe it was more like the drugs, or becoming miserably jaded,
which is a plight of people on this list I think, but ANYWAY, we were
kind of talking about this the other day, because my roommate's in a
hardcore band, and his bandmates were trying to come up with names for
themselves like "Fault Line" and "Riptide", and I was like, "what's
wrong with those people, those don't sound punk at all, they're totally
gay". This turned into a discussion about how today's hardcore isn't
really punk at all, ideologically, and that modern experimental
electronic is much more so by definition of what a punk mentality is, so
I want to see some fucking laptops smashed at the next boring idm laptop
convention gig.
quoted 5 lines This progression has interesting consequences for our cultural view of>
>
> This progression has interesting consequences for our cultural view of
> art,
> but that's another conversation.
VERY interesting. For example, that technologically based art (i.e.
music, sculpture, whatev) is becoming popular as a sign of the times. A
few years ago I was talking with a major label biz guy, and he was
telling me how for singles, a lot of the time they replaced the acoustic
drum tracks with electronically derived ones because "Americans prefer
the sound of a drum machine to real drums". I was played examples from
Genesis. What year would you speculate this change became?
Happy Listening!
Kevy.