On Mon, 1 Jul 1996, Todd Roberts wrote:
} Not that I want to open the can of worms again but being the editor of URB,
} I couldn't very well just sit around and let Tamara take all the heat... As
} far as I'm concerned, and from what I've seen here on this list, you guys
} are for the most part, a pedantic bunch of train-spotting wankers --
Nice. You expect calling us 'train-spotting wankers' is not going to open
up a can of worms? At least the original message criticizing Urb didn't
resort to name calling. I would think that you as an editor would
understand the ineffectiveness of stooping to such a level. I must agree,
however, that sometimes we can be a bit pedantic here when discussing
music, but what do you expect to find on a mailing list devoted to
to a specific topic like this? For most of us, this type of music is one
our great passions in life, so of course we are going to get off on
discussing the smallest details.
} anxious to get info on the next shit but with little regard for quality or
} musical perspective.
Why do you think we subscribe to this list? Just to get the newest
information on crap releases?! I (and most of the others here I presume)
have gone out of our way to subscribe to this list in order to find more
QUALITY IDM releases and discover more about our favorite IDM artists.
As far as the readers here lacking 'musical perspective', I think you are
way off on that. Most of us have arrived at the conclusion that IDM is
one our favorite music types because we DO have musical perspective. I
and probably quite a few others dabbled in industrial and more club
oriented electronic music before realizing that those genres had
far less quality releases than in the IDM genre. In addition, most of the
readers here have a very in depth knowledge of the progression of
electronic music over the years and they know how that relates to IDM. If
that's not musical perspective than what is?
} This list often takes a tone close to that of the UK
} press: If it's new, then it must be good. Bollocks.
Why do you think people here take the time to post lengthy reviews of the
new IDM releases? Just to get finger exercise? These are written to
inform those of us who haven't heard the releases yet as to whether they
are worthy of purchase or not. Just because it's new doesn't mean it's
good and most of us here know that.
} As this 'electronic
} dance' scene grows, there is a larger audience to appeal to, much larger
} than a few subscribing to an internet mailing list.
That's exactly why we are subscribed to this list. We have sorted through
a lot of the crap in the current growing electronic music scene and
arrived here. I assume you are mentioning this because you are trying to
appeal to a larger electronic music listening audience with Urb than the
'few' of us here. Well, that's fine. You're right, if you tried catering
Urb to only the IDM listeners, your magazine sales would probably decline
and you would eventually have to close shop. However, that's largely due
to Urb being an American magazine. If there was a British magazine
devoted soley to this type of music, it probably would struggle compared
to Muzik, NME, etc., but it would most likely survive since the scene is
bigger there. I read Urb myself and I don't expect you to completely
change the format or anything like that. However, it might be nice to see
a little more coverage of this type of music in your mag. One of your
best issues for me was one of your recent ones with articles on Spacetime
Continuum, Underworld, Dave Clarke, Subtropic, and Ken Ishii and reviews
of Atom Heart/Tetsu Inoue/Bill Laswell, Threads (a nice review of the IDM
comp 8) ), Global Communication, Dave Clarke, Elektroids and the
Spacetime Continuum/Autechre show in L.A. Plus that issue had the
'Experimental Electronik' page by Tamara, which had a lot of great stuff
on it. I hope that page becomes a staple of your mag, by the way.
However, this issue is not the norm for Urb. I guess it's hard to please
everyone since you choose to cover such a broad spectrum of music from
some IDM to hip hop to acid jazz to club music. Still, though, Urb is
the best American mag I've seen so far that covers any electronic music.
} What's really ironic is
} that this whole 'flame' started as a discussion of groups playing at
} Organic: Orbital, Orb, Underworld, Chemical Bros. etc. Definitely nothing
} new.
No they aren't new, but they are definitely quality bands in my mind.
Since I live in Arizona it is a rare treat to get to see this type of
line-up, so I made sure I went. I bet a lot of the U.K. readers would
have liked to have had the chance to see this show as well. The people on
this list are not against discussing artists that have been around awhile
either, by the way. Unless you just subscribed you would have seen a lot
of mention regarding the new Orbital offering and some mention of the
Orb's Peel sessions.
} Those publications you speak so highly of from the UK are in fierce
} competition with each other and consequently are aimed at provided the
} latest 'info' or gossip (in many cases) that they can get their hands on.
Yes there is some gossip in those mags, but they make sure to cover the
newest releases possible, which is nice because this gives the reader a
chance to buy the music after reading a review rather than buying the
music and _then_ reading the review. 8)
} Besides, most of this music you guys gloat over originates in the UK, a
} place where the word 'trainspotting' doesn't always have the best
} connotation.
As I understand 'trainspotting' it means to keep a very detailed eye on
what's going on. In this case it is applied to IDM artists and music. I
realize there is the movie coming out that uses this for the title, but I
don't think that relates to the meaning of it for music listeners. What
is the meaning you are referring to?
} Though we are definitely enthusiasts of electronic music, it
} is not our only focus. Relax, Tamara has only been on staff for just over 4
} months, before that I was the ONLY full-time editor. Tamara is dope and
} she's doing as much as she can to further the music.
Tamara is definitely doing a good job as far as I can see through
reading Urb and her posts to this list. In fact, I'm much more impressed
with her writing and attitude in general than I am with you (even though
she 'has only been on staff for just over 4 months' 8) ). I hope you keep
her on your staff because she is definitely enhancing Urb.
Why have you even subscribed to this list? I suspect it is merely to be a
lurker and gather information about this type of music for your magazine.
If so, I have no problems with that. I would be very happy to see more
coverage of IDM style music in Urb. However, when you surface to
blatantly criticize the readers of this list without even once
discussing rationallly the contents of the original message criticizing
Urb, I do have a problem with that. Basically, the original message
criticized Urb for having out of date information most of the time.
Additionally, it was said that Muzik magazine was more up to date in the
techno scene than Urb. I could see how you might get a little bent out of
shape about these comments, but in my opinion you aren't handling these
criticisms very well, especially considering that you are the EDITOR of
the magazine in question. Tamara at least took some time to explain the
problem with comparing Urb to a British magazine with tons of money poured
into it. You on the other hand, have not shed any more light on the
original criticisms and instead have only annoyed me and poorly
represented Urb. Granted, there were a few joking criticisms about Urb
not having as many pictures of Latina dancers as there used to be, but I'm
fairly sure you are intelligent enough to realize those were meant in
jest.
You should be glad I'm already a reader of Urb because if there are any
people out there on this list considering reading it you probably just
made up their minds for them.
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_/ Eric Frans :: franse@bigdog.engr.arizona.edu _/
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