ge> (Apologies for the length of this ramble ... )
No apologies at all necessary, Greg. That was a packed and moving
message.
gh> The main one being that I don't feel that the Download record or the
gh> new SP record have anything whatsoever to do with the canonical
gh> parameterization of "IDM" as discussed in this forum. (In fact, I was
gh> a bit surprised by our dentist friend Aaron sending a review of "The
gh> Process" to this mailing list.)
gh>
gh> I think there's a fuzzy boundary out there where what we call "IDM"
gh> turns into something else - like "Industrial" - that is best discussed
gh> elsewhere. I think that things like recent Scorn and MBM et al. skirt
gh> that boundary, and are fair game. I understand that Justin
gh> Broadrick's Techno Animal project is enlisting some
gh> well-known-to-IDMers remixers, so I'd include that too. I don't think
gh> Download and the new Puppy album fit inside that fuzzy zone, so I
gh> don't discuss it here.
gh>
>> Download is among the most sophisticated music ever made by the Skinny
>> Puppy crew, and the surprising thing about this record is the depth to
>> which Techno permeates many of the songs.
gh>
gh> Well, I've had one runthrough of "Furnace" and I don't really agree much.
gh> (I think that's partly the reason why DJ Philth - Capt. Stargazer to Mike
gh> Exist Dance Kandel's Commander Mindfuck - is no longer part of the crew.)
Hmmm... while I'll probably agree about _The Process_ (I don't have a copy
yet, so can't tell you for sure), Download sounds _VERY_ techno to me (in
much the same time that that Doubting Thomas was a twisted mirror held to
the techno of its time). It's certainly no less related to the classically
Detroit-centric techno sound than the very same Autechre album you mention
(i.e. both have almost nothing to do with that sound). At this point IDM is
what you make it to be, and I refuse to accept the narrow and confining
definition a lot of the people on the list seem to have adopted. I have
taken it as a role in my life to push people to look past where they are to
where they could be, and then let them decide how far out they want to
follow me. (Not that I'm styling myself as some sort of arbiter of hip, just
saying that I tend towards extreme inclusiveness)
It's got beats, it's got ambience, it's got artful construction, it's got
the fucked-up noises (if it only DIDN'T have Genesis pottering on it would
be close to perfect). The silly samples that marred Doubting Thomas are
mostly gone. I can hear the Mark Spybey Philth influences (I think that I'm
like maybe one of three people on the list who actually have heard the first
Outersanctum CD), and I think they're what make it such powerful listening.
It's also mean and high-density and not too organized, but that's been the
direction they've been headed since the beginning. I think that about as
close as they ever got to techno was "Assimilate" lo those many years ago,
and they were steadily headed the other direction ever after.
Yes, Ogre may have turned into a bit of a twit over time, but I will always
believe that the larger SP collective never were destined to work in a
techno form -- that just wasn't where their strengths were. They were all
about messiness and fucked-up noises and darkness. Shackling them to a
streamlined 4/4 might have yielded some interesting results, but it wouldn't
have played to their strengths.
You know that you and I have disagreed about this numerous times over the
past few years (in fact, I think that's what's formed the basis of most of
our conversations) but I do respect your point of view. I'm sorry that
you've lost your friend, and I do agree that the music world has lost a lot
with Dwayne's death. Hopefully, though, the people who are left behind will
continue to evolve and make new and interesting music. It's pretty scary how
many CDs I have from them in my collection.
yrz,
ozy
ozymandias G desiderata ogd@organic.com Ravers Suck Our Sound
(415)284-6888
http://www.organic.com/Staff/ogd/ ::AOAIOXXYSZ::