And the bell rings for round 4:
quoted 7 lines If there are such strong ties between ambient and IDM (and I'd> > If there are such strong ties between ambient and IDM (and I'd
> >say that at least a few members of this list seem to think there is),
> >why bother splitting the ambient list off into its own domain?
>
> I agree. I didn't do it! ;) I just subbed! ;) Hell there are
> like 5 or 6 different "techno/house/ambient/IDM/dance/jungle" lists now,
> and we've got to all expect some crossover... it's so hairsplitting...
Well, yes and no. I'm on 313, IDM, Lowlands, Breaks, and
UK-Dance, and I'd say they all fill very different niches. There's
actually very little overlap among the 5. And I'm sure the same is
true for the ambient list as well.
quoted 13 lines Does> >Does
> >there have to be at least a little bit of a rhythmic element to a
> >piece of music to make it IDM instead of ambient? Does it, on the
> >other hand, have to be "funky" or somehow rhythmically more complex or
> >slower to separate it from the undifferentiated mass of techno? I
> >really do wonder sometimes how people separate the intelligent music
> >from the stupid stuff.
>
> Yup. I couldn't agree more. I was just watching my step cause I
> didn't want a bunch of people telling me what I was posting was "off
> topic"... it happens, unfortunately. :) Now I sub to 4 lists (incl. 313)
> and I never know *where* the hell to post my rants and raves about great
> techno/electro records (!) :)
I usually just use this heuristic:
1) If some of the music I'm discussing is what I consider to
be "intelligent", I post it to IDM.
2) If some of it is jungle, I crosspost to breaks (this hasn't
happened yet, but that's just because I'm such a clueless loser when
it comes to things drum 'n bass).
3) If some of it either originates in or is by an artist from
Detroit, I crosspost to 313.
4) If some of it either originates in or is by an artist from
the Netherlands, I crosspost it to lowlands
5) Umm, I generally just read UK-dance because I'm obsessive
about music. I'd never actually post there, unless I wanted to beg for
information about clubs or who recorded some heavily commercial club
hit (uh, leaven with humor as necessary).
Works all right for me, and nobody's yelled at me yet. Of
course, if I'm going to engage in some of my obnoxious meta-discourse,
I just post it to all of them.
quoted 16 lines Oh Christ, with all due> Oh Christ, with all due
> respect to you and all techno-related lists, this labeling drives me crazy
> too. But *SOMEHOW* you have to describe what you're listening to, it's an
> art, unless you want to attatch a sound file to everything you mail (too
> cumbersome, ridiculous in fact)... It's like, how do you describe a
> Jackson Pollack splatter-painting? Yes I was purposefully vague cause
> some "ambient" people do "hardcore," some "IDM"'ers do house, some "pure
> techno" artists do beatless tracks... I could go on.... as could everyone
> else. :) You did what exactly I didn't want to happen, endless threads
> about "what is techno" and "ok, everyone, let's sit down here and list the
> exact elements that make an "ambient" record "ambient," or a "hardcore"
> track "hardcore." I leave those frustrating discussions, which I rarely
> think really *GO* anywhere, for the newsgroup lists (ack.) :) Don't be
> offended, but I personally don't care for the discussion of "What exactly
> *IS* <insert music genre here>." It's all too amorphous, and borrows from
> itself, I know.
To paraphrase Damon Knight, "Intelligent dance music is what I
point at when I say, 'This is intelligent dance music.'" I'm certainly
not making either of the arguments you imply I might be making: I
don't want to restrict the definition of IDM unduly, and I don't want
to explode it to include everything. I know that there is a very
definite thing or idea I _consider_ intelligent dance music, but I'm
hard pressed to come up with a rigid definition of what that idea
constitutes. I don't think there is one. I'm just trying to get some
kind of discussion about what kinds of things we consider to
constitute "intelligence" in dance music. If that makes any sense.
quoted 5 lines I'll try and dig up the few DJAX records that I don't care for and> I'll try and dig up the few DJAX records that I don't care for and
> mail you. It's entirely possible that our deffinitions of "hardcore" are
> different. The reload record I was thinking of was trax-x "molecule",
> screechy hard acid and analogue at blinding speed, pretty "hard" to me.
> Call it what you will. :) Labels. :)
Okay, I'll take your word for it. I'm not really such a
stickler about these things, really.
quoted 7 lines It's like the ultimate "skills test".... I know I have records that> It's like the ultimate "skills test".... I know I have records that
> when I practice I try and try to get them to work together, cause I know
> it's so hard and I usually can't. Mills would probably crack up if he read
> this stuff: "DJ exercises, volume one... put the Mills 12" on the
> turntable. Cue with one hand, and keep your other hand on the pitch
> control lever. Listen with headphones. Adjust for speed. Repeat process
> ad infinitum....." :)
He'd either crack up, get offended, or think it was cool. But
I think the exact same things that make his tracks difficult to mix
are what make him strong as a DJ. He just pays such close attention to
everything in the mix. Every element is exactly in its place.
quoted 7 lines peace,> peace,
>
> _______________________________________________________________________
> Matt MacQueen GROWTH.
> Interface and Hypermedia Designer/Programmer
> Communication Technology Laboratory, Michigan State Univeristy
> _______________________________________________________________________
Like you said, I don't think we really disagree about anything
here. I'm just trying to fumble my way towards defining some kind of
techno aesthetic, even if I can't tell you exactly what techno _is_.
philosophically yrz,
ozy
ozymandias G desiderata AKA Forrest L Norvell AKA DJ AladdinSane
GCS/CW/DJ d- H++ s++:-- !g p1 !au a- w+++ v+++ C++(---) U?++++(----)$
P--- L 3 E++ N++ K++ W---(-----) M++ V-- -po+ Y++>+++ t@ 5-
jx R-- G'' !tv b+++ D++ B-- e++ u*(**) h-- f++ r++ n++ x+(*)